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Re: Spaces rather than tabs by a major mode hook

From: goncholden
Subject: Re: Spaces rather than tabs by a major mode hook
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 06:33:06 +0000

On Monday, June 13th, 2022 at 5:39 PM, Jean Louis <> wrote:

> * Emanuel Berg [2022-06-13 06:04]:
> > Jean Louis wrote:
> >
> > > > Using Emacs makes no sense at all if one doesn't want
> > > > automatic (re)indentation. Why use such a powerful editor
> > > > if all you want is to disable each and every feature which
> > > > makes its powerful?
> > >
> > > Maybe manual shall have a section about disabling indentation.
> >
> > Indentation should always be used and the more it can be
> > automated the better.
> Programmers' indentation is akin to holy war.
> Read the quote:
> ,----
> | "Many early programmers used tab characters to indent, for ease of
> | typing and to save on source file size"
> `----

That's what they did

> from:
> I can think that sources from past may have its cultural
> significance. Reformatting such sources may rather be destructive for
> the full understanding of the programming roots.


> Other fact is that various editors simply do not indent same way the
> same language or markup, as there are too many different subjective
> assumptions and attempts to impose these or those rules.
> Frustration as result is understandable.
> I cannot find anything about indentation in Emacs GUI menu. But I can
> find indentation settings in editor such as Leo (most similar to
> Emacs), Mousepad, or Notepadqq or Gvim. In Emacs "Options Menu" it
> appears there is more importance if cursor is to blink or not and if
> tool bar, tab bar and menu bar are shown or not shown, while many
> other useful user options are not there.
> And Emacs users will stick to their habits and will say, well, if you
> wish to customize anything use setq or customize options. However, it
> may reject users or create esoteric impressions, that Emacs is not for
> everybody, but rather for advanced users.

For my case it was not about the advanced user thing.  It was about doing what 
was needed.  I never cared how advanced and powerful emacs re-formatting was.

> As a quick test, when I imagine I am Notepadqq user and now coming to
> Emacs, I was used as Notepadqq user to easily find option under Edit
> -> Indentation -> where I could choose Smart Indentation, Custom or
> Default Settings. I do not say it is better than what... (Emacs), I
> just give it as example. Then I open up Emacs and then I cannot find
> anything about indentation. If I go to top level group and write
> "indent" I get bunch of words I am not used to, like "Latex Indent
> Comment Start Regexp" and "Bibtex Contline Indentation" and so on,
> there is no way I can understand easily on the 74th line what is
> "Electric Indent Mode" just by looking into customization option. In
> fact if I click on "More" which implies the meaning to be "more
> information", I am faced with this happy greeting:
> ,----
> | " See the ‘electric-indent-mode’ command
> | for a description of this minor mode.
> | Setting this variable directly does not take effect;
> | either customize it (see the info node ‘Easy Customization’)
> | or call the function ‘electric-indent-mode’.
> | "
> `---- So, tell me, how am I supposed as user to get some indentation settings 
> without going through bushes of torns until I come to full understanding what 
> is going on? By the way, when I click "More" the function` 
> electric-indent-mode' on
> that place is not linked to anything, I cannot just click on it to
> understand it, and what follows is that me as a user of Notepadqq,
> Gvim, or Mousepad editor on GNU/Linux, I simply cannot find a common
> option, I cannot find it, even though I used customization search
> feature, I wrote "indent" and I got bunch of nonsense, no real
> guidance, I cannot possibly do it, neither I can understand "how to
> see `electric-indent-mode' command for a description of this minor
> mode".

We can go get drunk with the Massai after your ability to see things as they 

> The above small analysis is there to demonstrate differences to
> editors and difficulties.
> --
> Jean
> Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
> In support of Richard M. Stallman

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