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Re: Using Emacs for business

From: Jean Louis
Subject: Re: Using Emacs for business
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 23:23:43 +0300
User-agent: Mutt/2.0.7+183 (3d24855) (2021-05-28)

* Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor 
<> [2021-07-06 06:23]:
> Jean Louis wrote:
> > Python does not have nice ready made interface like Emacs
> > has.
> Python is a _programming language_, Emacs, among other things,
> a _text editor_.

Yes, true, but the longer or more extensively I use Emacs Lisp, I am
happy to have editor with it. The viewpoint changes slowly.

> I like Lisp much more. But Python has a much stronger grip
> everywhere, almost. Lisp is an underground/elite thing.

I have never got that impression. To me Lisp and Scheme were lookig so
much simpler than any other language due to how it was written when I
was reading it: there were smaller sized and well named functions,
that it made it easy to understand like:

(defun cook-my-coffee ()
  (heat-until-degree 100))

But then again functions may be written in a terrible different manner
to be very unreadable. Though readability in Lisp is so much overall
better than in other language.
> But not elite as in big bucks I'm afraid. You can go ask
> people working with computers to make money everywhere, but
> also young, ambitious people who study CS around the world at
> the universities. All of them will have some experience from
> Python, almost, but only a few (of the university guys) will
> be Lispers.

It is just a generational trail.

> It wasn't always like this, Lisp had a much stronger following
> in the "old" computer world when universities were much
> stronger players, there were even "Lisp Wars" between
> dialects. But now other languages, Python for example, are
> much stronger, including at the universities.

Maybe in Sweden. Not everywhere on the planet universities advance or

> I can't say I like Python but development _is_ very quick and
> there are just so many people doing it almost any issue you
> come across you get tons of good hits when you google even
> issues you yourself thought to be rare/exotic. Try do the same
> with Lisp :) Oh, no, that's why it is a secluded company these
> days, rather. There is just so many books, webpages,
> communities around Python, it is a no contest compared with
> what we have with Lisp.

Still I find that it is so much better relying on offline resources
like books than online references. One should first read and
thoroughly understand the programming language manual by doing the
examples provided and then program. 

btw. I don't "google" as it is not a verb, I use other search engines,
I search. 

What you said "try to do same with Lisp" -- actually I have tried and
I have got so much less dependencies on outside libraries. Often I am
minimizing the important scripts and resolving it without use of
outside libraries. My demand for searching on Internet for Lisp
related solutions minimized so much since I switched from Perl.

> Tell the little guys running the "greedy" little computer
> business world - compared to big business, which is 100%
> altruistic, of course - well, you might tell them bosses as
> well actually just as well - a lot of these guys have never
> HEARD of Lisp!

Generational trail, of course, nothing to wonder about, life changes.

> > Features in Emacs on the other hand allow easy and
> > rapid development.
> >
> > Helm or ivy or other completing packages for example help in
> > creating easy invoice, receipts or supermarket management
> > sotware. Find a product rapidly, add to list, print invoice,
> > add to database.
> >
> > There is fat overhead in other languages without integrated GUI
> > like Emacs editor.
> Get real ...

Get real... help me get real with a concrete example that may replace
the tabulated-list-mode in some other language. I would need the
features from that mode with keybindings. Do you have an example?

I have tried in Chicken, there is GUI but how I see that, I have to
build too many things until I come to the same feature. I would like
to heave it for example in CLISP or Chicken.


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