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Re: Can't send mail with smtpmail "any more" (Gmail and other providers)

From: Jean Louis
Subject: Re: Can't send mail with smtpmail "any more" (Gmail and other providers)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2020 18:30:16 +0300
User-agent: Mutt/+ (1036f0e) (2020-10-18)

* Saša Janiška <> [2020-11-01 16:31]:
> On Sun, 1 Nov 2020 16:05:01 +0300
> Jean Louis <> wrote:
> > M-x rmail is quite good client for email handling in Emacs.
> > 
> > Then there is:
> > 
> > M-x mh-rmail which may have many good power users' options
> Yeah, I heard goof things about those, but they seem a bit isolated
> when/if one wants to switch to something else?

When you wish to change to anything you can do that. Every email
format can be changed to other format.

By using mutt I can change from mh to maildir or mbox format, whatever
exists. I can open one file and save it into other file blazing fast
by T . RET and then ; s to save it, those are keybindings in mutt.

By using GNU mailtools I can quickly move from one email file to other
as there is command sieve:

For example:

function save-maildir-by-to () {
    sieve -f /home/admin/Maildir/Sent.mbox.2020 
Administration/sieve/save-by-to.sieve" && echo Sieve DONE.

/home/data1/protected/Programming/System Administration/sieve/save-by-to.sieve:

require [ "fileinto", "variables" ];
if address :matches [ "to" ] "*" {
  set "recipient" :lower "${1}";
  fileinto "~/Maildir/${recipient}";

I am often sending emails from Emacs, they are stored in
~/Maildir/Sent.mbox.2020 and from time to time I sieve those emails
into specific directories per user, for example
~/Maildir/ and ~/Maildir/

Because each email address has its directory I can quickly see all
previous conversation related to that email address without even using
any search tools.

> > For me, due to nature of my email handling and having over 50000
> > Maildir directories inside of ~/Maildir and that none of Emacs clients
> > is handling Maildirs, I am using mutt email client. 
> What about notmuch or mu4e which can use Maildirs (with the help of
> e.g. mbsync)?

notmuch never worked for me, it was terribly slow, but it may work for
you. There was one bug related to bits, whatever 32 or 64 I do not
know. Maybe it would work today but I got familiar with mu.

mu4e is great for Emacs, I would say the best if you do not have too
many emails like my side. mu4e is using background tool mu

Because I have too many emails mu4e is not much useful for me. It is
very slow. If you have not get hundreds of thousands of emails, it is
good choice.

What Emacs needs is mu4e that can directly access Maildirs and not
just database. With mutt I am directly accessing Maildirs so my email
system is blazing fast.

Let us say I am looking into email X and there is something I would
like to look into previous conversation. Because each email is sorted
in separate Maildir directoris ~/Maildir/ this
line in mutt configuration is opening new mutt instance over the other
one and showing me past emails related to same person.

macro index,pager \ev ":set wait_key=no<enter><pipe-entry>ef > 
~/tmp/ef-email<enter>!mutt-emailsof.lisp<enter>:set wait_key=yes<enter>" 
"Quickly view maildir for contact ID"

I could give you scripts. ef is C script made by author of GNU
Mailtools and it just extracts the email address from email so that
same address can be used to open up

Then I click q and I am back in previous listing of emails. That is
one example.

I wish Emacs would have Maildir handlings. There is one package for
maildir and I am sometimes using it but it is slow and not polished.

If I wish to search for emails in mutt I am also using mu command,
which is behind mu4e tools. So I click F3 and enter search terms and I
get new list with search results:

macro index <F3> "<enter-command>unset 
 "mu find"

That small macro makes mutt search all emails.

Maildir is most safe format for emails. You could even use just
ssh/rsync to move emails from remote Maildir folder to local one.

Those tools like mbsync are alright. I do not use them as I find
enough versatility in GNU Mailutils, so I am using movemail
utility. If Emacs finds movemail on system it is not going to use the
built-in function when compiling. So internally Emacs can use movemail
as well to fetch emails.

>From manual:

  Apart from that use, 'movemail' proved to be a useful tool for
incorporating mail from remote mailboxes into the local one.  See
Fetching Mail with Movemail, for a detailed
discussion with usage recipes.

> > That is one of most efficient for me. And I am launching it inside of
> > Emacs and editing files with Emacs by using emacsclient
> I'd be happy with (neo)mutt, but would miss (better) integration with
> org-mode?

That neomutt I do not know. I follow main stream mutt. Neomutt is full
of problems and lack of care in programming.

You let me know what you wish and I can maybe help you as I have
made some functions for mutt and Emacs. For example I can send Org
subtreet to one of staff members straight.

I like the concept of Android innovation that everything could be or
should be shared to other communication channels. This concept is so
much absent on desktop.

For example it is most logical that when using dired that I wish to
send some files to somebody, but such function is not yet there.

I just press Super-m and marked files are attached to mutt and sent to
desired person. I am choosing person from a database. i would not like
spending time attaching one by one file to email, or how I would be
even choosing them? By mouse? I would die just by selecting
files. Sometimes I send 24 or 40 images to somebody.

In Org I am preparing a TASK but task has to be assigned to somebody,
so I have to be able to send exact that task to somebody.

Which Org integration you need?

> > msmtp is excellent tool and handles queues of email even if connection
> > to Internet is sporadic. MTAs need to be configured to handled mail in
> > queues for longer time and for that reason some emails could be lost
> > or returned back.
> I believe that for my volume of mail, msmtp is good-enough. :-)

It is good for large volume, it does not matter. It will be stored in
the queue.

There are 59 messages yet in my incoming mailbox.

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