Re: Software/HD ecology

[Miles Bader]

Fredrik Staxeng <fstx+u@update.uu.se> writes:
> Perhaps I have not made the mechanism clear. The idea was the makefile
> calls "gnu-install package version file dest", instead of install.sh
> or BSD install. This is a simple extension of what is already done
> today.

No, it's completely obvious what you meant; it's just that you're
over-specifying.  Such implementation details are up to the package
maintainers.

Similarly, the coding standards _don't_ say `you should use autoconf to
make a configure script' (even though that's certainly one of the best
ways to do it, and how it's almost always done), they just say `you
should have a configure script.'

> I would like to be able to force packages to use a tool that I trust. 
> If it is easy enough to do, I would implement support for it and send
> patches to the maintainer.

If you personally don't want to trust anything that doesn't use a
`gnu-install' script, you're free to only use packages that do.

-Miles
-- 
"1971 pickup truck; will trade for guns"
>From help-gnu-emacs-bounces@gnu.org  Sun Dec 22 05:50:09 2002
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From: Fredrik Staxeng <fstx+u@update.uu.se>
Date: 22 Dec 2002 11:46:07 +0100
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Subject: Re: Software/HD ecology
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Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> writes:

>Fredrik Staxeng <fstx+u@update.uu.se> writes:
>> Perhaps I have not made the mechanism clear. The idea was the makefile
>> calls "gnu-install package version file dest", instead of install.sh
>> or BSD install. This is a simple extension of what is already done
>> today.
>
>No, it's completely obvious what you meant; it's just that you're
>over-specifying.  Such implementation details are up to the package
>maintainers.

My proposal is for an external facility, and that packages check for
it and use it if available. I think that the main feature of the 
proposal is that it places minimal burden on the package maintainers.

I think that requiring working uninstall targets places a bigger burden
on package maintainers.

>From the gcc-3.2 Makefile:

uninstall:
        @echo "the uninstall target is not supported in this tree"

>Similarly, the coding standards _don't_ say `you should use autoconf to
>make a configure script' (even though that's certainly one of the best
>ways to do it, and how it's almost always done), they just say `you
>should have a configure script.'

Autoconf is one of those things that only get reinvented by people
who don't understand how much work went into making it in the first
place. I would go a bit further than saying that it is the best way,
I think its the only reasonable way. I think the coding standards
could recommend autoconf a bit more strongly that they do today.

There is nothing in my proposal that requires autoconf. It merely
makes it easier to implement support for it. 

>> I would like to be able to force packages to use a tool that I trust. 
>> If it is easy enough to do, I would implement support for it and send
>> patches to the maintainer.
>
>If you personally don't want to trust anything that doesn't use a
>`gnu-install' script, you're free to only use packages that do.

I always do "make -n install" to see what the package wants to install.
Partly because of curiosity, I want to know where it puts things, 
and what those things are. But of course, there is the suspicion
that it might do something bad. It has happened in the past, it will
happen again. (This does not imply malice on any part, of course)

-- 
Fredrik Stax\"ang | rot13: sfgk@hcqngr.hh.fr
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From: David Klein <dklein@bloombergREMOVETHISPART.com>
Date: 22 Dec 2002 13:33:15 +0200
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Subject: Re: 1st character change in file takes forever
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Barry Margolin <barmar@genuity.net> writes:

> In article <m08yyodagg.fsf@bloombergREMOVETHISPART.com>,
> David Klein  <dklein@bloombergREMOVETHISPART.com> wrote:
> >When I first try to insert a character into a buffer that is
> >associated with a file on disk, the insert takes close to a minute!
> 
> During that first change, Emacs checks whether someone else has modified
> the file, and also checks for a lock file.  For some reason, these checks
> are taking a long time.  Try doing a system call trace to see what it's
> doing during that time.
> 

Assuming by "a system call trace" you meant the strace function, I did
the following:

> emacs junk1&
> strace -c -f -ff -o emacs_trace -q -r -t -T -p1238
(1238 was the pid of emacs. After running the strace command, I
 pressed the spacebar once in emacs. When it finally inserted the
 space into the buffer, I ^C'ed the strace).
> cat emacs_trace
% time     seconds  usecs/call     calls    errors syscall
------ ----------- ----------- --------- --------- ----------------
 98.46   12.598431          49    255963           read
  1.21    0.154380        5718        27           select
  0.13    0.016690          98       170           ioctl
  0.06    0.007652          93        82           sigreturn
  0.06    0.007152         170        42           SYS_174
  0.03    0.004175          66        63           alarm
  0.03    0.004048          92        44           fcntl
  0.02    0.002571         234        11           write
  0.00    0.000091           4        26           kill
  0.00    0.000070          70         1           symlink
  0.00    0.000068           3        27           getpid
  0.00    0.000038           3        13           gettimeofday
  0.00    0.000033          11         3         3 access
  0.00    0.000024          12         2         1 open
  0.00    0.000020          20         1           stat
  0.00    0.000011           4         3           SYS_175
  0.00    0.000008           8         1           close
  0.00    0.000004           4         1           lseek
------ ----------- ----------- --------- --------- ----------------
100.00   12.795466                256480         4 total


I have no idea how to continue, besides the fact that 255963 read
syscalls seems slightly on the high side for inserting a single
character. Any ideas how to continue?

-- 
Use of tools distinguishes Man from Beast. And UNIX users from WINDOZE lusers.
>From kai@patty.is.informatik.uni-duisburg.de Sun Dec 22 09:12:51 2002
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Subject: Re: any Emacs features to help keep code/comments under 80 columns
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<ken@cleveland.lug.net> writes:

> By trial and error I found the item in my .emacs that
> messes up (setq scroll-step 1) in .emacs.  I have
> an item on my modeline that needs to updated often
> so I added a "force-mode-line-update" (See below.).
>
> When I don't include this line all if fine with scrolling.

As a workaround, it might be best to remove the column number hack
and stick with plain column-number-mode enabled (or %c in
mode-line-format).  That's off by one, but oh, well.

The C source that implements the modeline display could be changed so
that the column number is printed 1-based instead of 0-based.

-- 
~/.signature is: umop ap!sdn    (Frank Nobis)