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Re: Emacs pager?


From: Tim X
Subject: Re: Emacs pager?
Date: 19 Dec 2002 17:49:13 +1100
User-agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2

Da Witch <heather710101@yahoo.com> writes:

> (Of course, one *could* just use Emacs as a pager, but Emacs takes too
> long to load up to be convenient.)

What! You mean you don't always have emacs running anyway?

Come on - after all, emacs IS the kitchen sink. Forget about wandering
around in some boring shell like bash, tcsh, csh etc and typing cd, ls
and less/more - just use dired, eshell and friends.

Actually, on a serious note, if you do maintain an emacs session (I
start mine at boot and only close it down when I turn-off/reboot -
about 2-4 times a year), you should be able to setup the emacs server
or gnuserv and a fake "more/less" so that the file is sent to emacs
and you can do your paging there.

Of course, probably the easiest solution is to use the lesskey program
which allows you to define the key bindings for less and set them to
mimic emacs key bindings.

Tim

-- 
Tim X.
tcross (at) northnet com au
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Fredrik Staxeng <fstx+u@update.uu.se> writes:

> kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de (Kai Großjohann) writes:
>
>>Really?  Hm.  I've seen some Alt bindings here and there...
>
> I have only seen iso-transl. But binding Alt instead of Meta assumes that
> Alt is distinct from Meta.

Of course!

> The best any program can do, is to use only one modifier, and make both
> Alt and Meta invoke that modifier. Of course, there should be a way to
> use the full capability of _any_ keyboard. But because of the historical
> mistakes, it can't be done "out-of-the-box".

Yes, you've said that before.  I understand.  But I'm not sure if I
agree.  I have to think about it further.

> If the default of x-meta-keysym is '(meta alt), then I am happy.

Now that you bring it up, it would be a good idea to allow lists
instead of just symbols.  But that isn't implemented yet.

> A minor quibble: I think that the x-alt-keysym is superfluous, 
> and only serves to perpetrate the confusion.

=8-{

The alt, hyper, meta, super modifiers are very similar, only the
degree of usage differs.  So why would any of these variables be
superfluous?

-- 
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David Masterson <dmaster@synopsys.com> writes:

> 2. To allow for source removal, "make install" should install an
>    uninstaller (like this: "make -n uninstall > uninstaller; install
>    uninstaller").

This would indeed be useful.

-- 
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Jay Belanger <belanger@truman.edu> writes:

> (A new debugger needs a massage-args function to massage arguments,
> but what arguments, and how/why do they need to be massaged?)

IMHO it's best not to massage the arguments.

To find out which arguments are passed to the function, it might be
easiest to write a little function which invokes debug:

(defun jay-massage-args (&rest args)
  (debug))

Then you can do `e args RET' from the debugger, then you know.

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Avi Purkayastha <avijit@tacc.utexas.edu> writes:

> I downloaded and installed GNU emacs v21.3.50 binary(not the terminal
> emacs that comes with OS X) and have been succesful except for one
> MAJOR problem. I can copy-and-paste out of an emacs window into a
> terminal or file, but not the other way around. So the cmd-c and cmd-v
> commands yield nothing into an emacs window. Any solutions?

In Emacs, the `paste' command is C-y.

-- 
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marcel-sl@gmx.de (Marcel Schmittfull) writes:

> Since I'm going to use completion _very_ often, I would be very happy
> about an easier keybinding...

Do you mean for dynamic expansion?  I use the Visual Studio binding of
<Alt>-<Space> (as it is in Windows), i.e. in .emacs:

(global-set-key (kbd "<M-SPC>") 'dabbrev-expand); expand word at point

Not sure if this is what you want, but I really like it!  :-)

-- 
************************************************************************
Kester Clegg                            Dept. of Computer Science,
Research Assistant (UTC)                University of York, 
Tel (01904) 43 27 49                    email: kester at cs.york.ac.uk
************************************************************************
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kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> there are two ways to use IMAP with Gnus.  One is to create an entry
> in mail-sources, the other is to use nnimap.  The second is what makes
> Gnus a full-fledged IMAP client. 

I think only the second one works 'with ease', I could never get the
first method to work properly with imap.  It barfed whenever I tried to
connect.  

-- 
************************************************************************
Kester Clegg                            Dept. of Computer Science,
Research Assistant (UTC)                University of York, 
Tel (01904) 43 27 49                    email: kester at cs.york.ac.uk
************************************************************************
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Tim X <timx@spamto.devnul.com> writes:

> Actually, on a serious note, if you do maintain an emacs session (I
> start mine at boot and only close it down when I turn-off/reboot -
> about 2-4 times a year), you should be able to setup the emacs server
> or gnuserv and a fake "more/less" so that the file is sent to emacs
> and you can do your paging there.

I like to use eshell.  Very nifty.  Here is my version of less for
eshell:

(defun eshell/less (&rest args)
  "Invoke `view-file' on the file.
\"less +42 foo\" also goes to line 42 in the buffer."
  (while args
    (if (string-match "\\`\\+\\([0-9]+\\)\\'" (car args))
        (let* ((line (string-to-number (match-string 1 (pop args))))
               (file (pop args)))
          (view-file file)
          (goto-line line))
      (view-file (pop args)))))

The voodoo is for the line numbers.  If you don't need it, this should
do, as well:

(defun eshell/less (&rest args)
  "Invoke `view-file' on the given file(s)."
  (while args (view-file (pop args))))

You can configure the key bindings of view-file, too.  view-mode-map
is the variable I believe.

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To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: M-TAB already used by KDE
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kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de (Kai Großjohann) writes:

>Fredrik Staxeng <fstx+u@update.uu.se> writes:
>
>> kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de (Kai Großjohann) writes:
>>
>>>Really?  Hm.  I've seen some Alt bindings here and there...
>>
>> I have only seen iso-transl. But binding Alt instead of Meta assumes that
>> Alt is distinct from Meta.
>
>Of course!

And so provides a clue as to which keyboard the perpetrator has. :-)

>> The best any program can do, is to use only one modifier, and make both
>> Alt and Meta invoke that modifier. Of course, there should be a way to
>> use the full capability of _any_ keyboard. But because of the historical
>> mistakes, it can't be done "out-of-the-box".
>
>Yes, you've said that before.  I understand.  But I'm not sure if I
>agree.  I have to think about it further.

I think that the overriding goal is to make the keys adjacent to the
space bar work as Meta. I have used Emacs without a Meta key for a couple
of thousand hours, and the Emacs command set doesn't really work well
without it.

I can't see another way to do that, given that some X servers send
Meta for that key, and some X servers send Alt. 

The ICCCM method of looking for Meta keysyms in the modifier map
means that Meta functions move to the Windows key, _if_ you use the
pc104 keymap. If you use the pc101 keymap, the Meta functions are
on the Alt key. If you spill coffee on your pc104 keyboard and
plug in your old pc101 keyboard, you have no access to Meta 
functions at all. 

If this had been done sensibly, the pc104 would be a strict superset
of pc101 behaviourally. Then Linux distributions could use pc104 as
the default in the knowledge that it works even with pc101 keyboards.

>> If the default of x-meta-keysym is '(meta alt), then I am happy.
>
>Now that you bring it up, it would be a good idea to allow lists
>instead of just symbols.  But that isn't implemented yet.

What problem was this intended to solve then?

>> A minor quibble: I think that the x-alt-keysym is superfluous, 
>> and only serves to perpetrate the confusion.
>
>=8-{
>
>The alt, hyper, meta, super modifiers are very similar, only the
>degree of usage differs.  So why would any of these variables be
>superfluous?

Key names are just labels. What matters is the mapping from key
position to behaviour. The Emacs command set is designed with 
the expectation that there is a shift-like modifier key that
is given the name Meta. In reality, very few keyboards provide
a key labeled Meta, but they provide a convenient substitute.
It's labeled Alt on PC keyboards, and it is labeled <> on Sun
keyboards. 

Sun users know that their Alt key is not the same as the PC Alt key,
but PC users generally do not know the details of Sun keyboards.
They are used to that Alt is synonymous with Meta. Introducing a
different concept with the same name into Emacs is confusing.

On the other hand, Super and Hyper are unambigously distinct from
Meta/Alt. That is, instead of putting mappings on Alt, which 
assumes a Sun keyboard, put them on Super.

I suggested that Meta and Alt should be treated synoumously by
default, and that there should be two settings, x-meta-is-super and
x-alt-is-super. Then all users will have the keys adjacent to the
space bar as working meta keys. 

Then, the iso-transl Alt mappings are moved to Super. Sun users can
then put (setq x-alt-is-super t) in their .emacs to access those
bindings, and KDE users can use (setq x-meta-is-super t) to do the
same thing. Or they could make the key send Super, and not change 
Emacs at all. 

Your solution strikes me as a bit overengineered. I don't see the 
need for full generality here, especially since there are two
(or three) other general layers (xkb, xmodmap and Emacs keymaps).
The solution above is simpler to understand and use for the 
common practical cases I can imagine.

If you really want full generality, the most powerful solution
would be a x-key-translate-hook.

-- 
Fredrik Stax\"ang | rot13: sfgk@hcqngr.hh.fr
>From help-gnu-emacs-bounces@gnu.org  Thu Dec 19 09:15:10 2002
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From: Carsten Dominik <dominik@_DROP_THIS_science.uva.nl>
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>>>>> "MS" == Marcel Schmittfull <marcel-sl@gmx.de> writes:

MS> Hi
MS> I use KDE and therefore the keybinding M-<TAB> is already used for
MS> switching between windows. Unfortunately there are several emacs modes
MS> which try to use M-<TAB> for completion (f.e. lisp-mode, AUCTeX, ...).
MS> However, the KDE setting seems to be "stronger" than the emacs setting
MS> and hence I can only switch between windows with M-<TAB>. 

MS> Is it possible to tell emacs that whenever I type a certain
MS> keybinding, f.e. C-x M-<TAB> or so, emacs behaves as if I typed
MS> M-<TAB> ? I.e. I don't want to change the M-<TAB> keybinding for every
MS> single mode, I just want to have a certain global keybinding which
MS> replaces M-<TAB> globally. Is this possible ?


In KDE 3, it is finally possible to remove the window switching
command from M-TAB, which will make it available for Emacs and other
application.  AFAIK, this was not possible in KDE 1 and 2, but this
serious BUG has been addressed now.

In the KDE 3 control panel, go to Look&Feel - Shortcuts
and change the binding for System - Navigation - Walk Through Windows

- Carsten


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