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Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

From: Michał Kruszewski
Subject: Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2023 18:13:16 +0000

Hi Peter,

I have once evaluated ms, mm and mom.
I have come from the Latex world after being sick of its bloat.
I was looking for something simple.
I know some differences between ms, mm and mom, but I do not really understand 
why people did not want to cooperate to create a single macro package and 
single program.
The *roff community is rather small.
Dividing it by providing multiple packages doing more or less the same, or 
implementing multiple programs (groff/pdfroof for example) is not probably the 
right move.
I do not want to learn and use ms, mm or mom depending on the type of the 
document I write.
My impression was that ms is the most minimal and the simplest.
I can easily extend ms by defining my own macros or by writing Perl/Python 

Current pdf support in ms is far from being perfect.
However, I hope that one day it will be obvious that groff + ms is the way to 

Nevertheless, I admire your mom work.
You have probably invested hundreds or maybe even thousand of hours into it.

Best regards,
Michał Kruszewski

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------- Original Message -------
On Wednesday, April 5th, 2023 at 7:09 PM, Peter Schaffter <> 

> Michał --
> On Wed, Apr 05, 2023, Micha Kruszewski wrote:
> > I would like to have simple structure: custom cover page -> ToC ->
> > custom page -> text. No matter how I try always some kind of mess
> > is generated. I am attaching my "favorite" output so far.
> If you haven't invested too much in ms, you might want to check out
> the mom macros. An example of setting up your simple structure
> (simply!) can be found in the file in the
> examples/mom directory of your groff installation.
> From the rest of this thread, I conclude you really should be using
> mom anyway. It has full pdf integration including internal and
> external linking, automatic generation and placement of a clickable
> TOC, clickable outline for the pdf viewer, and customizable window
> titles.
> The mom macros are extensively documented in html format, both on
> your system and online at
> PDF usage is covered in a separate document, mom-pdf.pdf, which is
> on your system and available online at the mom website.
> --
> Peter Schaffter

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