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Re: Proposed: 3 disruptive changes for groff 1.23.0

From: Bjarni Ingi Gislason
Subject: Re: Proposed: 3 disruptive changes for groff 1.23.0
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 03:18:10 +0000
User-agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13)

On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 01:48:15AM +1000, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> Hi folks,
> Back in October, a release looked imminent, but it doesn't seem so now.
> Over 700 commits have been pushed since rc1, so an rc2 seems called for
> on quantitative grounds alone.  I'm therefore seeking feedback on three
> _structural_ changes to the groff repo and/or the source distribution.
> 1. "Skip the stripper".  Mooted several times on this list in the past,
>    this proposal to stop shipping some macro packages (hdtbl, mdoc, and
>    "me") in a condensed, hard-to-read form akin to JavaScript
>    minification already enjoys a consensus, but was shelved on perceived
>    scheduling grounds.
>    <>

a) I do not see a consensus;
there is no voting,
no resolution,
no mentioning of side effects,
thus no informed consensus,
just people speculating,
showing (me at least) a startling lack of
1) knowledge
2) intelligence.

  And following that, absence of understanding, (critical) thinking,
and more.

b) "hard to read".

  Is the stripped file meant to be read by humans only?

  The misplaced information (thus practically unseen) explains, where
the informative, readable file for humans is.

  A better "strip.sed" file is in the attachment.

  I have used it for some time to make and use the following additional
stripped files:

an-ext.tmac devtag.tmac html.tmac om.tmac ps.tmac tty-char.tmac 
www.tmac an-old.tmac dvi.tmac m.tmac pdf.tmac s.tmac tty.tmac

##### Attention #####

  Not using such a file makes the software less effective;
thus such a move is simply a sabotage.


  Is there also a consensus, that the maintainer, that introduced this
mechanism of removing meaningless (time, energy, processing cycles
wasting) bytes, made a mistake, an error?




On the Cruelty of Really Teaching Computing Science

Edsger W. Dykstra (Dijkstra)

SIGCSE Bulletin 1989, 21(1), pp. xxv-xxxix.

Also ""


  "Since breaking out of bad habits, rather than acquiring new
ones, is the toughest part of learning we must expect from that
system permanent mental damage for most students exposed to


  "The problems of the real world are primarily those you are
left with when you refuse to apply their effective solutions."


Herman Rubin in the Usenet forum "":

  The important part of research, which I describe to my
students as "seeing the obvious", and as it has otherwise been

"Scientific research consists in seeing what everyone else has
seen, but thinking what no one else has thought"

                                                -A. Szent-Gyorgyi

It is not working harder which matters; it is thinking.
It is understanding, not memorization.  It is education,
not training.


>I know people who can pass tests and get full scholarships to college
who make
>bad decisions.  I don't think the ability to puke information onto a
>sheet is going to help a person make a decision.

I agree.  Making decisions requires thinking, and this is not
developed my memorization and routine manipulations.  What is
needed is getting general principles, and having to decide when
and how to apply them in situations other than those in class
or in the textbooks.


>I've administered many multiple choice tests in my time, and I never
>cease to be amazed at how frequently the questions are answered with
>the wrong answer.

That they are answered with the wrong answer is not the
problem.  That the answer does not show the thinking is
the problem.


"You must unlearn what you have learned".  Yoda in "Star Wars.  The
Empire Strikes back".

Bjarni I. Gislason

Attachment: strip.local.sed
Description: Text document

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