Re: [GNU-linux-libre] MAME

[Jean Louis]

Hello Felipe,

This is my opinion:

- comparing Gnash to MAME is out of the context.

- the context is the time. We are looking into Gnash which started
  development 11 years ago. The purpose of Gnash was to liberate people
  so not to use Flash. The initial purpose of Gnash was
  liberation. Reference to time when Gnash was developed:
  https://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/manual/gnashuser.html

- back in time GNU was searching for kernel. Until proper kernel was
  found, it was hard for any GNU user to gain the degree of liberation
  that is possible today, see: https://www.gnu.org/bulletins/bull4.html 

- back in time, back in the other context, there were just few people
  speaking of free hardware and running truly free software, today, as
  of today's context, we have change, the movement has brought the
  change,

- also websites and HTML changed, now everybody can watch and publish
  videos without Flash. The purpose of Gnash has been achieved and is
  being achieved.

- today we don't want to run, not even non-free Javascript, we have
  LibreJS. it is there to complain to website owners to provide to us
  either free software, or to decide not to run free software. 

- Free Software is not about software only, it is movement, it has to
  give incentives to people to get control over their information,
  communication, data, computing, the movement is not any more using
  free software, but also being free from centralized networks, being
  free from Service as Software Substitute, being free from proprietary
  software programs, having truly free software distributions that do
  not give any incentives to run non-free software,

- before there were no "free software distributions". Why? Because the
  collective awareness was not ripe for that. Today there are free
  software distribution.

- some people like me and few others, will certainly think that
  including MAME® emulator, and even Wine, and other software packages
  like that do not contribute to future liberation, but why? Not because
  there are "possibilities for education", but because MAME software is
  practically used to run non-free ROMs. Where at the MAME website or at
  MAME community have anyone see "educational purposes"?

- who is first to move the movement forward, but people from FSF and
  people who provide distribuons, so there is need to think in the
  context and with alignment with purposes of free software distribution
  guidelines.

- in my opinion it is quite correct to reject the inclusion of Mac Os on
  Linux, because such emulator, even free, is made to run non-free
  software. By including it and justifying it that someone could make
  free software on it, we speak out of the today's time context.

- look: Description: Allows running MacOS inside a GNU/Linux system at
  this page:
  
https://libreplanet.org/wiki/List_of_software_that_does_not_respect_the_Free_System_Distribution_Guidelines
  where it says "Only runs/supports proprietary software", as reason not
  to include Mac Os on Linux.

- for me, it is really hypocrisy to tell to people to use LibreJS,
  because that is in the context of the time where we are now, and on
  the other hand, to make technical support, to compile MAME®, to
  provide binaries, to pay for all the servers, and ask people for
  donations to pay for distributions to keep software such as MAME®
  available for users.

- the statement "we shall not assume to know how people are going to run
  the software" cannot be taken as the only factor when deciding which
  software to include in truly free software distributions. People shall
  start thinking: is the inclusion of this software clearly inciting
  people to use non-free?

  If we imagine "free software users", the free software distribution
  shall be made for free software users.

  Just like LibreJS was made for free software users.

  The question shall be: is this software that we want to include, made
  for free software users? MAME® is certainly not such software.

  What is the purpose of this software? Does the purpose collide with
  the purpose to liberate the users?

  So far, out of all the "history and museum for ROMs", that is
  mentioned on MAME website, there is NOT EVEN ONE SINGLE PIECE OF FREE
  SOFTWARE that was made for MAME. The official build is made for
  Windows: http://wiki.mamedev.org/index.php/FAQ:About

  Comparing MAME to Gnash, is comparing it out of the context. Today is
  2016, not 2005 when Gnash was made to liberate people from proprietary
  Flash.

  Today we have LibreJS, better comparison would be to compare the
  purposes of MAME to purposes of Icecat with the built-in LibreJS. Of
  course not everybody is using it, but Icecat is included in GuixSD
  because of the liberation it brings to users.

  What liberation has MAME given to users over long time? It is binding
  users to use non-free ROMs.

Jean Louis

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 03:03:49PM -0300, Felipe Sanches wrote:
> It is basically only used for running arbitrary non-free flash
> programs sent to the user.
> 
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 2:43 PM, J.B. Nicholson <address@hidden> wrote:
> > Felipe Sanches wrote:
> >>
> >> What are the goals of Gnash ?