Re: test-org-table/sort-lines: Failing test on macOS

[Max Nikulin]

On 22/11/2022 08:14, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
> Max Nikulin writes:
>
> > > 2. `org-sort-list'
> > > 5. `org-sort-entries'
> > `downcase' is used, not proper case folding, so a potential issue
>
> `downcase' is used to determine user input about sorting type.
> Not for sorting itself.

See case-func variable. Its initialization depends on the IGNORE-CASE 
argument. Strings to sort are passed either through `identity' or 
through `downcase'.

> > > 4. `org-set-tags' (tag order), when `org-tags-sort-function' is set to
> > >      "Alphabetical" or "Reverse alphabetical".
> >
> > IGNORE-CASE argument is not used, perhaps `downcase' is hidden in the code.
>
> I feel like we are slightly miscommunicating here.
> I mostly tried to list the uses of libc-sensitive sorting. Not
> specifically cases when we try to ignore the case.
>
> The problem is not limited to case-sensitive comparisons. Some systems
> may fail to implement specific locales and thus sorting may downgrade to
> simple string-lessp.

When case folding is not involved, I consider `string-lessp' as a 
graceful degradation. Despite locale rules are not applied, strings are 
mostly sorted. Exceptions exist, but usually order is reasonable.

Completely disregarding IGNORE-CASE argument of `string-collate-lessp' 
on MacOS (that is not a heavily stripped embedded OS) is a bad surprise 
for me.

> > > 6. Agenda sorting, when alphabetical sorting is involved
> >
> > `string-lessp' and `downcase' so even more severe locale-related issues
> > might be expected.
>
> Could you please elaborate?

I admit that `downcase' may be an acceptable workaround since 
`string-collate-lessp' may not work IGNORE-CASE, but I believe, when 
available, `string-collate-lessp' should be the preferred option for 
sorting.

> > Achieving consistency across Org code requires additional efforts.
>
> Well. Just using `string-lessp' would make things very consistent.
> Easily and with no efforts.

With hope that clang will get better Unicode support, I would move in 
the opposite direction, namely wider usage of `string-collate-lessp'. 
Just using `string-lessp' means no ignore case sort even where it is 
available now.

I have an idea of a compatibility wrapper for `string-collate-lessp' 
with special treatment of ignoring case and bad libc implementation. 
Apply `downcase' before passing arguments to `string-lessp'. It should 
provide consistency, best user experience when locales works properly, 
and graceful degradation otherwise. I hope, it is acceptable for Org 
even though such trick is undesired for Emacs due to performance reasons.

However I am afraid of compatibility shims after

d3a9c424b 2022-08-16 17:15:27 +0800 Ihor Radchenko: org-encode-time: 
Refactor into top-level `defmacro'

P.S. I am not motivated enough to build Emacs on Linux using clang to 
check if locale information will be available. I am almost sure that 
some locale information is available on MacOS, e.g. at least strcasecmp 
even if full CLDR can not be easily accessed from C. I do not have a Mac 
to check state of affairs. For objective-C there is e.g. 
comareCaseIndependent.

I do not like that Emacs relies on locale support (and timezone as well) 
in libc. It becomes a problem as soon as more than one locale should be 
used in simultaneously. I agree that there are enough complications and 
sometimes locale depends on the document (e.g. #+LANGUAGE:), sometimes 
specific locale even restricted to a part of a document. It is tricky to 
handle such cases, but current limitations are too strict (and defective 
`string-collate-lessp' on MacOS is an example).