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Re: Website revamp?

From: TEC
Subject: Re: Website revamp?
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 20:03:43 +0800
User-agent: mu4e 1.4.10; emacs 26.3

Thanks for stepping through your thoughts in such detail.
I really appreciate it :)

Maxim Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> writes:

> On a phone I would expect to see something like
> Org mode for GNU Emacs
> - Keeping notes
> - maintaining TODO lists
> - planning projects
> - authoring documents
> with a fast and effective plain-text system

I'll do a bit more on the banner design in a day or two, I'll play around a bit
then. Worst case that sort of content would be just under the banner on mobile
devices --- I really want to avoid a 'crammed' look.

> Sorry, but "An innovative and intuitive plain text markup syntax" means 
> nothing
> to me. "Created by Carsten Dominik in 2003" is a sign of mature and stable
> enough software without disgusting "since ..." but contradicts a bit with
> "innovative".

Good to know. I'd be interested in hearing more thoughts on this, but for now
here are my own:
 - innovative :: does 'new' and exciting things that similar products don't
 - intuative :: despite doing a lot, it isn't complex to work with, but
   thoughtfully designed to be easy to use
 - plain text markup sytax :: what Org is ... mostly

I personally don't find 2003 at odds with "innovative". Something can both
have competitive advantages, and be mature.
Please let me know if this explanation of my view affects your own.
> In a "full" version my suggestion is to minimize amount of text significantly
> larger than 1em. 4em is excessively huge font for normal monitor. I am in 
> doubt
> it is feasible to require readable but not oversized font on mobile devices,
> 1366x768px laptops, and 4k monitors simultaneously.

I take it you mean 1em to be the body text size, and are just referring to the
size of headings? Or do you mean 1rem?
The body text is currently ~1.2rem FYI.

> On the other hand, I hope, donate links work but in new design thy are not
> contrast and eye catching enough despite their colors.

Interesting that you should say this, personally I find them more eye-catching
than the current grey box in the corner.

I'm also planning on repeating that "Created ... support ..." banner on the
other pages, perhaps as a footer --- I haven't worked out the details yet.

If the colour needs to be more prominent, we could turn the styling from links
to buttons, but I suspect the change wouldn't be worth it.

> In my opinion on a laptop/desktop screen the banner should not occupy so much
> vertical space. I like the idea of adaptive one or two column layout depending
> of screen width that you have shown in another message.

I'll look forward to hearing your comments after I get around to implementing
that :)

> I see 3 category of users requiring content different to some extent but 
> should
> be easily recognizable:
> - Newcomers need to recognize if org-mode is able to do what are they looking
> for. So features should be presented for them, they should notice links to 
> docs
> and an instruction how to try it
> - "Help desk stuff" in a broad sense who are not aware of org-mode but have to
> help some person when local org-mode guru is not available. They need to 
> quickly
> recognize what is org-mode is at all, so they may look for general 
> descriptions,
> docs, specific discussion groups. Unsure but even "Download" instead "Install"
> might be more noticeable.
> - Experienced users are more or less familiar with the site, they may look for
> project news, hacks, how to debug particular issue or to submit a patch. They
> should be able to find info on not so often used feature or to find specific
> place in docs to send a link to a friend. Unfortunately I am not familiar 
> enough
> with content of the site to recommend "hot" links to the main page.

Mmmm. This is a good point. The essential details are communicated by the
current large banner IMO

- plain text markup syntax
- versatile
- a few use cases
  + keeping notes
  + todo lists
  + planning
  + writing
- system

My current idea is to have the banner be a quick "what is it?", then have
elaboration as the first part of the content, links to other important parts of
the site (e.g. features, install) and little details like latest version and
release date after that.

> Priority of content is different for mobile and laptop/desktop visitors but 
> the
> latter should see content, not just banner and void on the home page. There is
> room for improvement of current home page, but it is more informative than the
> new design demo.

Let's see how this is with the revised banner :)

>> Are you saying that you find the current mention of Emacs in the instillation
>> page works well?
> I do not remember how I realized that org-mode is a part of .deb package when 
> I
> decided to try org-mode for the first time. I tend to believe that is not
> immediately clear that first paragraph could be just an alternative to second
> one. Maybe it should be emphasizing with headers:
> "Use org-mode bundled with Emacs" vs. "Install latest stable org-mode package
> from ELPA".

I think Ill try to work in a direct mention of Emacs in the banner.

> Please, fix a typo. Should be "Installation".

Fixed :D (on my local copy)

>> Even better - having two or three different demo files based on the use case
>> of
>> the new user - e.g. programmer, author, organisation - or something like 
>> that.
> It would be great but it requires more work.

I'll try to start with one, and see if the community steps up :)

> Minor remarks:
> - Should not be logo + "Org mode" in the navigation bar a link similar to
> "Home"?

Sounds reasonable, I'll tweak that.

> - I am afraid that without clear sign that demo page is an experiment, results
> in search engines could be distorted. Red block with text like "See official
> site https://orgmode.org"; and robots.txt file could help to avoid confusion of
> people and crawlers.

Yea, no chance of that being an issue. For starters I don't think this is even
listed, but even if it was, with no links to the site it should be settled quite
firmly at the bottom of the last page :P

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