Re: delete-selection-mode (was: Put scroll-bar on right by default on UNIX.)

[Alan Mackenzie]

Hi, Juri,

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 02:54:50AM +0200, Juri Linkov wrote:
> >> delete-selection-mode would be the default too, that's what everything
> >> on the desktop does...

> I agree with Richard that the primary concern is doing what is useful
> for newcomers.

You have misconstrued Richard's post.  He went on to say that what is
useful for newcomers isn't necessarily what they expect or "want".
There's thus no indication there that he would support the rest of your
argument.

> One of the most frequent questions they ask is how to do what most
> other editors do - to replace selected text with a typed character or
> with yanked text, and to delete the region by typing <delete> without
> copying it to the kill-ring.

The answer is to ask them why they want this.  C-w is easy to type, as is
<delete>.  delete-select-mode is such an irritating distraction that it
should only be enabled for those who really, truly want it.  Emacs is
rare amongst editing software in that it imposes very few irritations on
users in its default mode of operation.  (That Emacs can be configured is
irrelevant here; we're talking only about it's default settings.)

> What they are asking for is delete-selection-mode, but they can't find
> it in the documentation because the feature name says nothing to
> beginners, and they expect to take this functionality for granted.

Emacs isn't about taking things for granted.  It's about efficiency,
about minimising keystrokes, about not getting in the users' way.  How
about improving the documentation/menu-settings/whatever so that these
beginners find what they're looking for?

> Some recent examples of such problems:

> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help/60992
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help/45623
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help/42402

> Is that reason enough to enable delete-selection-mode by default?

No.  We do not want to send Emacs down the slippery slope towards lowest
common denominator editors.  We want to encourage Emacs users to use
Emacs efficiently, taking advantage of its many features.  What you are
proposing would have the opposite effect.

We've had this discussion often enough in the past.  Do we really have to
go through these motions yet again?

> -- 
> Juri Linkov
> http://www.jurta.org/emacs/