Joachim,
> I'm all for cooperation. However, that doesn't mean
> beginning a dialogue with a gesture of submission.
No one said that you guys should show a gesture of submission... far from it, only that you should try to build on what we already have built and not start from scratch since we are light-years ahead of where you would be otherwise. Believe it or not we were trying to be helpful, not put you down. But, by the same token, cooperation on your side should NEVER have included misrepresentations of GNUstep and it's contributors.
> Our intent was not to ignore GNUstep. I agree, our
> first contact was more like a fender bender.
Clearly the fact that our contact up to now is "a fender bender" is very much Rick's fault since he:
1) Completely misrepresented our current state (as noted in my blog)
2) Ignored the comments of a number of top people from the project, including myself
3) Got nasty (the "How Nice" posting) in response to our comments
4) Deleted all of our comments from his NeXTbuntu blog and
5) Last, but certainly not least: Engaged in attacks against me personally on his blog simply because I was trying to show him that we ARE progressing along many of the lines that he outlined in his "First Letter" posting.
I wish that Rick had not done the last one, and I sincerely believe that an apology is in order. His posting implies that I "hang around the blogosphere all day" or that "I've accomplished little in 10 years." Both of these statements clearly indicate that Rick has done as little investigation about me as he has done on GNUstep. If he had done his homework he would see that I am an extremely significant contributor to GNUstep.
> But clearly, GNUstep is not ready for prime time, not
> after 10 years of hard work and having access to all
> kinds of legacy code. This is baffling to me.
GNUstep may not be ready for primetime, but that is no reason to start over, as Rick seemed to be suggesting early on... or at least he implied this by saying that we should do it and not do it under the GPL. GNUstep is LGPL, not GPL, and anything added to GNUstep would also need to be LGPL. Also, we are an FSF project. We, by definition, cannot take code that isn't copyright-assigned to the FSF. So, even though there may be "legacy code" out there, we may not be able to use it because of licensing and copyright concerns. Everything in GNUstep is completely original.
> Maybe it is time to step back and take a fresh look at
> the whole picture. Maybe a spirited collaboration can
> get things moving that neither party could do on their
> own.
I couldn't agree more, I would very much like to cooperate with you guys, even after everything that has happened. And I will say that IN SPITE of all of the above, we are STILL willing to support NeXTbuntu should it become something good.
In conclusion:
==============
I believe that there is a fundamental misunderstanding between us. GNUstep's purpose is to be a crossplatform development environment, primarily. It was never intended to be an OS in and of itself.
That being said GNUstep has always had a sort of personality conflict, since there are also desktop apps. So the creation of a desktop or OS based on GNUstep would be wonderful!
GNUstep folks would be absolutely delighted to see a viable distro pop up that can show the world what an OpenStep platform can really do and thrust it into the fore so that people can see it for the elegant thing it truly is.
Please forward this to Rick, and if he wants, reply to me and Adam Fedor (
fedor@gnu.org) if he's willing to start an actual dialog with us.
Later, GJC
--
Gregory John Casamento
----- Original Message ----
From: Joachim Schulz <joshu0011@yahoo.com>
To: Gregory John Casamento <greg_casamento@yahoo.com>; Joachim Schulz <joshu0011@yahoo.com>; discuss-gnustep@gnu.org
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 4:28:15 PM
Subject: Re: These NeXTbuntu guys
GJC,
I'm all for cooperation. However, that doesn't mean
beginning a dialogue with a gesture of submission.
Our intent was not to ignore GNUstep. I agree, our
first contact was more like a fender bender.
But clearly, GNUstep is not ready for prime time, not
after 10 years of hard work and having access to all
kinds of legacy code. This is baffling to me.
Maybe it is time to step back and take a fresh look at
the whole picture. Maybe a spirited collaboration can
get things moving that neither party could do on their
own.
Cheers,
Joachim
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