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Re: GNUstep roadmap (was Re: [Suggestion] GNUstep-test for quality contr

From: Alex Perez
Subject: Re: GNUstep roadmap (was Re: [Suggestion] GNUstep-test for quality control)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:07:37 -0700 (PDT)

>> some new blood, if, as you put it, you really "don't much care which
>> way it goes." We need a leader. We need someone to give this project
> Oh for gods sake. the aim here is to write a piece of software, not wage
> some dumb war.
Agreed. There are problems in Base, go look at NSURL some time.
>> hereby question your ability to lead this project with that kind of
>> mentality.
> ...thats only based on the fact you have a skewed idea of what "the
> porjcet" actually is.
No, it's not. There's Backbone for a "gnustep desktop environment, and
here you are putting words into my mouth based on e-mails of mine you have
read in the past. This is dangerous, and nowhere near fair to me. I have
no problem with the fact that you may or may not disagree with the concept
of a "gnustep desktop environment" and I do think it ought to be a
separate project. The issue here is that some things are outright BROKEN
in base, and have been for some time, and nobody deals with it, even
though they know the problem exists. I do not condone strong-arm
management, but some guidance is sometimes necessary, and that's what I
believe is lacking. I'm not talking about anything other than -Base or
-AppKit here, Pete.
> The first aim of the prohect was to produce clone of the API. No more
> and no less. Adam does a fine job at leading this effort.
> If other people want to go off and have a second project to produce an
> OpenStep enviornment on top of the core then they are quite free to do
> so - and you could all quite happily elect some leader, form a roadmap
> of applications to be written, allocate out the work and do an extremely
> good job.
At this point, I franlky think that the leadership is so limp-wristed that
even if it *DID* want to sanction the official creation of a full 'desktop
environment', it would never go anywhere. Especially at the beginning,
strong leadership is important.
> ...but instead you choose to come on here and whine about the fact that
> the project isnt producing what you want it to do ? Do I detect a slight
> allergy to actually doing some work here ?
If you consider calling THE PROJECT LEADER on such public comments as "I
dont really care where this goes", then yes, this is whining. Oh, the
audacity! I'm not the only one that feels this way, and I encourage the
other people who think that such a comment coming from the project leader
is a bad thing to speak up.
> I actually think a separte app writing project with a separate leader
> might be an excellent thing. But comming on here demanding a change of
> leader is ridiculous! I also think its very insulting to Adam (and the
> rest of the core team) witjout whom you wouldnt have any sort of API kit
> on which to bas any applications!
As do I. It's definately the best way to progress, and such a project
would have the benefit of improving GNUstep by finding bugs in Foundation
and AppKit. Anything that uses Foundation or AppKit increases the chances
of bugs being found. This whole "Foundation is 100% ready to go"
disillusionment is getting old, though.
> Now, please go off and try and do something constructive - preferably by
> writing some bloody code - rather than offensive and arrogant emails.
I'm currently in the course of porting (and helping to port) several
applications to and from GNUstep. You will see the results of this
probably within the month, but the presumption that everyone on this
mailing list writes code shows me that you don't think anyone would
possibly use GNUstep as a straight-up user, which gives me some insight
into the way you see GNUstep.

Alex Perez

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