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Re: Phase Synchronize 2 USRP N200 w/ SBX cards

From: Marcus D. Leech
Subject: Re: Phase Synchronize 2 USRP N200 w/ SBX cards
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 16:09:42 -0400
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0

On 06/13/2021 04:02 PM, Skyvalakis Konstantinos wrote:
Agreed. The compensation part is not the one I worry about. What worries me the most is the angle-in-radians part.

Let's say that from the time sink plot I observe that I have pi/2 radians phase offset between channel 1 and channel 2. How do I know it's pi/2 radians and not -3pi/2?

To be precise, I am also dumping the 2 channels complex data to 2 file sinks, which I then import on matlab for easier and faster experimentation.

In other words, how can I precisely calculate the 4 discrete phase shifts I am observing in my application?

Should I use cross correlation?

Should I use Hilbert transform?

I don't have a very noisy application, in case that plays a very crucial role.

If you consult the "uhd_fft" app within the gnuradio/gr-uhd source tree, you'll see that it has a mode where it will display the
  relative phases of two channels when you have a two-channel input.  It also has a bunch of different synchronization options,
  so you can glean a lot of technique info from that.

Also, there's a fair amount of "stuff" out there on phase measurements with Gnu Radio--this is just the first one that popped up
  in a Google search:


On Jun 13, 2021 22:06, Marcus D Leech <patchvonbraun@gmail.com> wrote:
Phase *correction* is easy once you know what that correction should be. Just a complex multiply-const by 


Or the equivalent in complex exponential notation. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 13, 2021, at 1:52 PM, Skyvalakis Konstantinos <kskyvalakis@isc.tuc.gr> wrote:

Understandable. However, if you eventually hear anything about it please let me know.

Can I contact you again tomorrow for some questions I have about the phase correction block I need to make? (I mean through discuss-gnuradio)

Thank you very much.

On Jun 13, 2021 19:37, Marcus D Leech <patchvonbraun@gmail.com> wrote:
I haven’t heard fro R&D on it. Part of the problem is the N200 was designed over a decade ago, and the original engineering team have long since departed…

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 13, 2021, at 6:25 AM, Skyvalakis Konstantinos <kskyvalakis@isc.tuc.gr> wrote:

Hi Marcus and sorry for bothering you again, but I'd like to ask if you have any news regarding my problem.

Thank you.

On Jun 11, 2021 16:15, Skyvalakis Konstantinos <kskyvalakis@isc.tuc.gr> wrote:

​Yes it kind of helps, because if I manage to apply a phase shifting/correction technique, then all 4 scenarios could produce sensible data.

I am trying to build a phase correction block now, that will compare the 2 received signals, to see which phase shift out of the possible 4, minimizes the absolute phase difference between the 2 channels.

After I figure out which phase offset is the correct one, out of all 4, then I can run the rest of my DoA application. It is a bit of a pain in the a**, but it will have to do in case it never gets fixed.

Let me know if you have any news from Ettus.

Thanks again.

From: Marcus D Leech <patchvonbraun@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2021 4:05 PM
To: Skyvalakis Konstantinos
Subject: Re: Phase Synchronize 2 USRP N200 w/ SBX cards
Also does knowing that there are only 4 possible phase relationships help in your application at all? Like only one of the 4 possible phase assumptions can produce “sensible” data? Just a thought. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 11, 2021, at 9:03 AM, Marcus D Leech <patchvonbraun@gmail.com> wrote:

I am an Ettus support contractor. I have a direct channel to R&D so I will relay any insights I receive here since any such feedback would be generally useful. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 11, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Skyvalakis Konstantinos <kskyvalakis@isc.tuc.gr> wrote:

​I also tried contacting Ettus Support but they are not replying to my e-mails.

I will try to implement the phase calibration for now.

Thank you for your effort.

From: Marcus D Leech <patchvonbraun@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2021 2:23 PM
To: Skyvalakis Konstantinos
Cc: Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Phase Synchronize 2 USRP N200 w/ SBX cards
I have a query in to Ettus R&D about possible causes. 

But you might need, for now to do an initial phase Calibration when you start up. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 11, 2021, at 3:39 AM, Skyvalakis Konstantinos <kskyvalakis@isc.tuc.gr> wrote:

I repeated the experiments once again today and I got once again the same results. I still keep on randomly getting these 4 cases I attached on a previous message.

I observed that cases 1.png and 3.png have a phase difference of  +/- 180 degrees

and cases 2.png and 4.png also have a phase difference of  +/- 180 degrees.

Do you reckon you could help me any further with my problem? I really need to achieve this synchronization for my thesis.

Thank you very much.

From: Discuss-gnuradio <discuss-gnuradio-bounces+kskyvalakis=isc.tuc.gr@gnu.org> on behalf of Skyvalakis Konstantinos <kskyvalakis@isc.tuc.gr>
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2021 12:39 AM
To: Marcus D. Leech
Cc: Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Phase Synchronize 2 USRP N200 w/ SBX cards
Exactly my thoughts as well, I mean regarding the phase ambiguity of the WBX daughterboards, from what I've read on the Ettus website.

I am 100% sure the daughterboards are SBX.

On Jun 11, 2021 00:26, "Marcus D. Leech" <patchvonbraun@gmail.com> wrote:
On 06/10/2021 01:00 PM, Skyvalakis Konstantinos wrote:

In addition to my last message regarding the INTEGER_N tuning​, ​I repeated the experiment multiple times. I even restarted the USRPs and the signal generator multiple times.

What I observed was, that there were only 4 different recurring phase offsets (Blue = RX2 of SBX1, Red = RX2 of SBX2).

I am attaching the 4 screenshots I captured.

Thank you so much for your help. I feel like we're getting there.

You're sure that you have SBX cards and not WBX cards?  Sorry for the apparently-stupid question, but the WBX uses almost the
  same hardware as the SBX, but uses a 2XLO mixer that has fixed phase ambiguity--which would look like what you have here.

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