Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Re: A Humble Request....for allowing to copy Circuit into PCB

[Moeller]

On 11.01.2011 12:35, Patrick Strasser wrote:
>> The copyright is at Ettus.
> The schematics are freely available, you can produce the PCBs for an
> USRP yourself.
>
I'm used to respect copyrights. So, it's allowed to freely reproduce, modify 
and republish
the USRP design? That's what I expect from community projects in the GNU world.
It would be a waste of time to produce the EDA and Gerber files just for a 
single board.
The PCB cost should better be shared in a community project.
Is USRP really open hardware, free to modify, reproduce, republish?
That would require a GNU-like license. I didn't find such comments on the 
schematics.

Some answers to requests for a GNU-like community hardware on this list are 
useless comments
like "do simulations" or "we are not a charity". This is a total contrast to 
the GNU philosophy.
Isn't this a GNU mailing list? Or is it a support forum of a commercial product?
I have respect for people who want to make business. But I also see the great 
success
of community projects like Linux. Nobody asks how many hours people invested in 
Linux
hacking. It's just a community project. The intellectual property is shared.
Does nobody have an idea about "open hardware", which belongs to the community,
not to a company? Everybody can benefit. The design could be adapted to special
demands, reduced in complexity for ultra-low-cost variants (for the "starving" 
students).
And of course the cost could be reduced, if many individuals contribute. 
Somebody has
access to high tech measurement instruments, could do some RF characterization
as a donation to the project, somebody knows a cheap PCB producer, some
started SDR projects, unfinished, but maybe useful to integrate into a Gnuradio 
etc.
Some people on this sum up all development effort into a certain product cost.
That's a commercial way of thinking, not the GNU way. If you share development 
costs
in a community, it could be much lower, almost down to the BOM price (+ PCB 
cost).
And that's about $200-$300 for the USRP1, not $1000 (incl. shipping & tax), 
right?

> If you want the same performance like the USRP (64MSPS, 14bit, FPGA,
> USB, connector/daugterboard system, TRX), you will have to pay the
> price. If you can live with less there are options. If you want to start
> something new, send your proposal, you'll be gladly supported by lots of
> people.
You need a critical mass of developers to start a GNU-like open hardware. 
Anybody interested?
It's a lot of work for a single person, but not so much in a shared effort.
I'm curious to try something in gEDA. Up to now, I only worked with very 
expensive commercial
EDA tools. It would be great if such a project could be realized with free EDA 
tools.

I think a USRP-like SDR would be in the price corridor about $200-$400 in a 
non-profit
community project. The parts are low-cost, cheap FPGA, no special RF shielding
between digital and analog parts. Cheap commercial Spartan FPGA development
kits are sold for $150. For $900 you get already complete Virtex-4 FPGA
kits including PowerPC with more FPGA- and signal processing capabilities.
Or look at this one, $400 price class, includes PowerPC, 64 DSP slices,
Gigabit Ethernet, 64 MB RAM, just RF part and A/D converters are missing:
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-products/fpga-pld-products/4103784/-395-Virtex-5-FXT-FPGA-evaluation-kit

The USRP1 performance would be sufficient for me.
I would like to use it for electronics education for my children and as a 
spectrum- and logic-analyzer.

> Please keep in mind:
> Engineers motto: cheap, good, fast - choose any two ;-)
> In other words: A DIY kit is not just the BOM/BOM costs. Its development
> time and failed attempts, production costs for a PCB, risk margin for
> unsold kits, extra costs for parts in batch amounts (you want just 3, we
> only sell it by 25...), shipping costs, packaging, tax/custom. If you
> find someone who does all that for free, what are you willing to give back?
I was talking about open hardware. Those costs could be shared in a community.
If it's for a good purpose, for the improvement of community hardware, I would 
share
my experiences, measurement results and design modifications with the community.
But would you do this for a commercial product?

> That's the Charleston SDR.
> http://www.amrad.org/projects/charleston_sdr/
> The creator is a nice person, if you ask for permission you have chances
> to build your own.
> The AMRAD people have done several batches of this system already for
> workshops. ~100$ for the Digilent Board, ~100$ for the SDR board. The
> Digilent part is good for a lot more fun, too. NB: John Schwacke, the
> creator of the board, has already built a GNU Radio block for this.

$200 is Ok. I will check this out.
I'm not a radio amateur, but I like their openness to share hardware 
developments.