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Re: Denemo Questions

From: Richard Shann
Subject: Re: Denemo Questions
Date: Sun, 14 May 2023 10:50:43 +0100
User-agent: Evolution 3.38.3-1

On Sat, 2023-05-13 at 17:36 -0400, Anthony Deaton wrote:
> Richard:
> Thank you for taking the time to get back to me with such a nice
> response.  It is really appreciated!
> On 5/12/23 04:24, Richard Shann wrote:
> On Fri, 2023-05-12 at 01:44 -0400, Anthony Deaton wrote:
> > Hi, I am trying to find an adequate replacement for MuseScore 1.3,
> > as
> > all the subsequent versions have made matters worse and bordering
> > on 
> > impossible for me to use with my workflow.  I wanted to know if
> > there
> > is 
> > anyway in Denemo to add an invisible note,
> I wonder here "invisible to whome?". Denemo is a program that aims to
> make it easy to enter musical scores by visualizing the typeset music
> on screen as you enter the music. At a most basic level if you typed
> the letters c d e at your keyboard (or played those notes on a MIDI
> keyboard) Denemo would display a treble clef, 4/4 time signature,
> five
> line stave and those notes as quarter notes on your screen and
> (rather
> more slowly) show the same music typeset beautifully in a window
> ready
> for printing. It is centered on rapid, error-free, music entry.
> It does also output a MIDI or audio representation of the music,
> intended to reassure you that the notes you have entered are the ones
> you intended.
> The note would be invisible in the printed version of the score but
> visible to the composer.  I have the keyswitches programed to be just
> outside on the given instrument's range to be able to change from
> legato to staccato samples, for example.  Here is a screenshot to
> demonstrate.  The greyed out notes send the info back to the sample
> engine as to what articulation samples are being used but they
> wouldn't show up in a printed score.
> >  as I use these for 
> > keyswitches in Musescore connecting to Sfizz via Jack Midi.  Also
> > is 
> > there a way to utilize a 2nd and 3rd Jack Midi Port after you have
> > maxed 
> > out the 16 channels in the first port, as this is a necessity for
> > large 
> > orchestral works.
> > From this I'm guessing that "invisible note" means an arbitrary
> > MIDI
> message inserted into the MIDI output at a certain point in the
> music. 
> Denemo does indeed allow the user to do this - Denemo does not refer
> to
> it as an "invisible note" but as a "Denemo Directive", in this case
> one
> directing the insertion of a MIDI message to be inserted into the
> output.
> Would this work as a replacement for the invisible notes? 

yes, it would be a cleaner way to insert MIDI messages into the MIDI
stream (that's because Denemo separates the music entry window - the
"Denemo Display" - from the typeset view, so you can put things like
inserted MIDI messages and make them display themselves as some special
symbol in the Display without in any way affecting the typesetting).

>  As long as I can send the actual note back to the sample engine

Well, it would be a hack to send a special note back to the sample
engine, rather than the MIDI message that you mean it to execute. (I'm
a little out of my depth here, I'm guessing a sample engine is
something that translates MIDI messages into audio).

> without it showing up in the printed score is all I need.
> Also as to the multiple jack ports.  Is that possible in Denemo?

Again, I'm out of my depth here as it's at least 10 years since I tried
JACK. I know there are people using it on Denemo hopefully they may
chip in. In order to explore the JACK features the program would need
to be compiled with JACK support, which is not the default. Andreas
Schneider's builds may include it...

>   In MuseScore after running out of the 16 channels of a midi port
> you can add a second, third, etc. port.  Is that possible in Denemo?
> I also use overlapping notes to activate the legato script in the SFZ
> engine.

To make that practicable in Denemo would require tinkering with the
routine generating the MIDI, the current output is really just for
note-checking. However "activate the legato script" sounds like you are
not literally specifying the start and stop times of a note but rather
triggering some effect by making them unusual. In other words, the MIDI
messages that you emit are coded messages with a meaning not specified
in the MIDI spec, intercepted by your "SFZ engine" and interpreted

At the risk of getting off-topic, I confess I've always been rather
puzzled that MIDI does not seem to provide a way of starting a note and
making it increase in volume (i.e. "velocity" in MIDI-speak) as it is

>  In MuseScore 1.3 it is done by highlighting the notes and selecting
> "user"  in "offtime offset" and setting an integer greater of 1 or
> greater:
> All I could find in Denemo is this:
> However, when I try to change it to 385, for example, it doesn't
> alter the note duration time

I think you will find that the duration is, indeed changed, resulting
in all the subsequent notes starting earlier or later to match (which I
would guess is not what you would want - rather you would want the
timing of everything else to stay the same, resulting in the altered
note overlapping others).

>  and when I check again it still shows 384. 
That is just the rather crude interface - it doesn't read the current
duration and show it at this prompt but gives the value for restoring
the normal duration...

>  Perhaps I'm doing something incorrectly?  I type in 385 and click
> "OK" but it never takes.
> I'm sorry to bombard you with so many questions, but I couldn't find
> adequate answers for any of this in the manual,
The manual is woefully incomplete ...
>  or perhaps I'm not comprehending the manual correctly, but any help
> you can give would be greatly appreciated.  I will gladly send you a
> donation to keep this project rolling and advertise for you on my
> website if this program can work for me.  
I haven't been able to find an overview of what "SFZ engine" refers to,
so it's difficult for me to be sure what would be involved in
developing Denemo in that direction - it has for many years only
expanded its capabilities for entering/checking/typesetting music. I
recall writing stubs in the MIDI for indicating such things as
crescendo over a musical passage, but didn't implement anything for

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