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Re: minimal examples
From: |
Hans Aberg |
Subject: |
Re: minimal examples |
Date: |
Sat, 8 Dec 2007 12:01:15 +0100 |
On 7 Dec 2007, at 23:58, Graham Percival wrote:
There is nobody who knows more about the internals than me who has
the time to help out.
Perhaps you should, that is, having connections set up it makes it to
consult at need.
And I only spend about two hours a week on the bugs. There is a
*critical* shortage of volunteers -- be they developers,
documenters, website maintainers, whatever -- in lilypond.
Perhaps the current setup discourages people joining in. You may need
to engage folks in little things you think you can do yourself, and
then train them to do bigger things. And if somebody wants to join
in, they should know how to do it.
The "bugs" website is intended to do that. I apologize again for
not sending you that link.
Im not sure what you mean here - I have followed the bugs for some
time, and I know about the bug reporting conditions list.
It would not have helped in the case at hand, since you said you did
not know what \pitchedTrill, and in fact, I had only used in two
occurrences, in the same code, in a similar position, and the bug
showed up in both case. In addition, this was just an experiment: I
would probably prefer the accidental written out above the "tr", as
this is typically done otherwise. So my immediate guess was that you
perhaps had broken in an upgrade. Further reduction would need
experience in how the graphical components might be linked, which you
turned out to have.
If you have any suggestions for improving those suggestions, please
tell me. You already suggested removing the \paper{ ragged-
right=##t} line; as Mats replied, this line is easy to copy&paste,
and if somebody forgets it I add it myself anyway.
The tendency is that this is not included when people are discussing
code informally in the lists, so I suspect you might get it excluded
pretty often - human habit thing.
As for the real hints, I honestly think that "remove anything
unnecessary" is the best I can do. I could easily write a 1000-
word essay about how to remove unnecessary items in bug reports...
but nobody would read it.
It requires human experience, and gaining that mst likely requires
social interaction. I think you need more people getting engaged in
this.
I estimate that by now I've spent three hours working on that
measly webpage, trying to find the perfect balance between brevity
and wit... err, I mean "compactness and explanations". Still, it's
possible that adding one more bullet point might clarify something;
I'm not perfect.
Webpages only have limited influences, as it may be hard to know what
it means in specific cases.
Once somebody fails to produce a minimal example for the second
time, I will general create one myself, precisely as I did in this
case. But I definitely want people to read the webpage and attempt
to make a minimal example on their own first.
I think you should have gotten back to me, when I remarked that it
was perhaps the first g, saying: "Aha, so then perhaps this is not
necessary. Do you ming trying again?" Even if you are sure you can do
it, you engage others learning how to do it. With more interaction of
the bug list, others may help out with the reductions.
It was great when Graham said that "this or that might not be
needed, please try reduce it a bit further". If you work on a bit
more interaction, then you should be able to get people to help
out more.
... and I go back to spending 20 hours a week on lilypond, instead
of _trying_ to spend only 10 hours on lilypond.
For reference, my paid Teaching Assistant work -- which my academic
advisor keeps on complaining about, since it means that I'm not
working on my Masters thesis -- is 12 hours a week. And I actually
get money from that non-academic-career-furthering work. Do you
have any idea how many conference paper I could publish if I spent
20 hours a week working on them? I might even be able to get some
grants or scholarships!
Again, I apologize for not sending you the link. But I will not
spend any more time and energy on lilypond than I am already. If
that means that the bugs suffer, so be it. I'm doing more than
enough already.
The problem might be that you try so hard to do it all yourself, that
you as a result of that hard effort do not get others to help out. It
is a long term problem. I cannot say if what I suggest will actually
improve the current difficult situation in the long term - it is just
an input.
Hans Ã…berg
- Re: minimal examples, (continued)
- Re: minimal examples, Graham Percival, 2007/12/07
- Is "bug reporting" visible enough on lilypond.org?, Erlend Aasland, 2007/12/07
- Re: Is "bug reporting" visible enough on lilypond.org?, Graham Percival, 2007/12/07
- Re: Is "bug reporting" visible enough on lilypond.org?, Mats Bengtsson, 2007/12/07
- Re: Is "bug reporting" visible enough on lilypond.org?, Erlend Aasland, 2007/12/07
- Re: minimal examples, Valentin Villenave, 2007/12/07
- Re: minimal examples, Hans Aberg, 2007/12/07
- Re: minimal examples, Mats Bengtsson, 2007/12/07
- Re: minimal examples, Hans Aberg, 2007/12/07
- Re: minimal examples, Graham Percival, 2007/12/07
- Re: minimal examples,
Hans Aberg <=
Issue 519 in lilypond: PDF filesize has increased between 1.9.8 and 2.10, codesite-noreply, 2007/12/05
Issue 519 in lilypond: PDF filesize has increased between 1.9.8 and 2.10, codesite-noreply, 2007/12/05