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Re: [Bug-gnubg] REQ - gnubg autoroll dice when closed out / on the bar.p

From: Wayne Joseph
Subject: Re: [Bug-gnubg] REQ - gnubg autoroll dice when closed out / on the bar.png
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 13:55:52 -0000

>> When you got the cube here, would you pass ?


Thanks for the input motiv4u – that position is good to know. Although 7nYbAAAAAIABAA:UgngACAAAAAA is slightly different from the situation that I was trying to describe.


I was trying to imagine a ‘closed out homeboard’ with, say, 2 on the bar.


Shifting your posted position forward by one to make a closed out homeboard (2 opponent checkers on the bar and 13 already borne off) with spares on 2, 3 and 5 points - to me it looks like it is never correct to immediately double (not rolled out but guessing always less than ~45% favourite at this point).


t9sNAAAAAAADAA:cAnvAAAAAAAE – 2 checkers on bar



With 1 opponent checker left on the bar and 14 already borne off it would certainly be correct to immediately double. (Guesstimate – Huge 90% favourite with 1 chequer remaining)

However this is one of those fairly exceptional ‘Coup Classique’ type positions.


u9sNAAAAAAABAA:cAnvAAAAAAAE – 1 checker on bar



I guess it’s not practical for a workaround to be made? E.g. if I am on the bar against a closed out homeboard, unless I have just one remaining chequer to get around, (or perhaps one chequer plus a small number of pretty advanced escaped chequers), then autoroll will continue to roll (i.e. don’t wait for me to decide if I want to cube while I’m closed out on the bar as it will be incorrect, at least until there is at least one open point to come in on)?


I’m not an expert, but as far as I can see these are some No Double / Double borderlines.






I guess these types of closed out / on bar, but cubing positions are fairly rare, but still happen, which probably make it non-trivial to account for all exceptions like the above in the gnubg code.


Still, it’s been good for me to think about some reference positions J






P.S. I am still interested in seeing any real-world YouTube matches where this type of closed out cube has happened with more than one checker left – probably makes for a brave and unusual viewing!



From: motiv4u [mailto:address@hidden
Sent: 11 February 2015 10:42
To: Wayne Joseph
Cc: Massimiliano Maini; address@hidden
Subject: Re: [Bug-gnubg] REQ - gnubg autoroll dice when closed out / on the bar.png



On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Wayne Joseph <address@hidden> wrote:

You make a valid point Max - thanks for your inout.. although I guess ~99% of the time while I am on the bar and closed out I will not be tempted to offer the cube to my opponent.

Over the board, I would probably not offer the cube until there was at least one open point for me to come in on, unless there were fairly exceptional circumstances (i.e. am miles behind in the race, at say 5 away - 4 away and will probably lose the match anyway (say I have just ~4% MWC) with the cube already at, say 4, so why not bump it to 8 with that small 4% chance to win the entire match).

In five years of playing, I cannot recall being in a non-exceptional position where I have considered offering a cube while closed out and my opponent bearing off (which may say more about my poor gameplay than anything else). If there has been an open point for me to come in on, that is a different story.

Would be really interested to see any youtube links / sgf / transcriptions where somebody in a non-exceptional (or even exceptional) position offers the cube at a time when they have been completely closed out. Maybe when they have taken off all but the last 2 or 3 of their checkers? Or they are miles behind in the race throwing a 'Hail Mary'.







It's a Double / Pass at Grandmaster

And a Too Good to Double / Pass after a roll-out


When you got the cube here, would you pass ?




I can see how the non-autoroll makes sense in adhering to the rules of the game (choice of cubing) but I'm not sure how practical it is. In the real-life matches I've seen, most people just automatically hit the clock when closed out. Does anybody have any other common examples of closed out cubing?




On 10 February 2015 at 09:57, Massimiliano Maini <address@hidden> wrote:



you have to take a cube decision, even if you're closed out. That's why it doesn't auto-roll.




On 10 February 2015 at 10:47, Wayne Joseph <address@hidden> wrote:

Hello all,

I have a feature request to improve the efficiency of gameplay when playing against the CPU.

Please see

(Please note that 'autoroll' is already switched on in options as well - with no apparent effect in this situation)


Is it possible to implement autoroll of the dice on your turn when you are 'closed out' against the opponents 6-prime in their homeboard?



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