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Re: [Bug-gnubg] list of issues

From: Mike Robinson
Subject: Re: [Bug-gnubg] list of issues
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 10:14:04 +0000 (GMT)

--- On Mon, 11/5/09, Massimiliano Maini <address@hidden> wrote:
From: Massimiliano Maini <address@hidden>
Subject: Re: [Bug-gnubg] list of issues
To: address@hidden
Cc: "gnubg-list" <address@hidden>, address@hidden, "Christian Anthon" <address@hidden>
Date: Monday, 11 May, 2009, 3:55 PM

Mike Robinson <address@hidden> wrote on 11/05/2009 16:18:52:

> --- On Mon, 11/5/09, Massimiliano Maini <address@hidden>wrote:

> From: Massimiliano Maini <address@hidden>
> Subject: Re: [Bug-gnubg] list of issues
> To: address@hidden
> Cc: "gnubg-list" <address@hidden>, bug-gnubg-
> address@hidden, "Christian Anthon"
> <address@hidden>
> Date: Monday, 11 May, 2009, 9:15 AM

> address@hidden wrote on
> 10/05/2009 12:45:28:
> - 2 buttons for resign and reject is totally fine according to GUI standards:
> they are 2 distinct actions. If we make only one, how do we label it ?
> "Resing/Reject" ? Or have a label that dynamically changes between reject and
> resign ? Both bad imho. 2 buttons is fine (one grayed outwhen appropriate is
> perfect).

> MJR: Both actions mean that you're quiting the game - one is done
> during play and the other is only done after being doubled. The
> result though is identical - you quit, Sadly the program responds to
> resigning (after being doubled) in a different fashion ie it asks if
> you wish to resign a double game - this doesn't make sense in this
> situation. Perhaps you guys as developers can understand a reason
> for having two buttons but to an everyday user (ie me) it's confusing.

You didn't answer my question: if you want a single button, how would you like
it to be labelled ? "Quit" ?
The two buttons have different icons and different (and clear) labels: it's
not a GUI quirk if you click on "Resign" instead of "Decline". BTW, as
Christian said, if the "Resign" button is grayed out when a double is proposed,
the problemis solved, you will not be allowed to click on "Resign".
MJR: A single button could state resign at all times unless the program has just doubled in which case it could change to reject. Though personally I'd be quite happy with it just saying resign at all times as it effectively means the same thing (ie Accept/Resign ~= Accept/Reject). The icon for the button doesn't need to change - a large red X is just fine.

A GUI cannot prevent the user from clicking on the wrong button, unless you want
the silly staple from Microsoft Word :) :) (which, anyway, doesn't do it neither).
MJR: The user (ie me) is confused because he is offered 2 buttons to do the same thing yet selecting the wrong button produces a different action (I'm asked if I want to resign a double etc). Changing your GUI and having one button would stop me from getting confused and clicking the wrong button. Normally the simpler you make your interface then the better the end product is (take Google as one example and almost any MS product as a counter example).
> - what's 'the score' you would like to see along the match ? Your
> FIBS rating ?
> Your Error rate ? Both would be almost pointless, even more if they take into
> account all your past matches (they would barely move during one match after
> you have played, say, 100 matches).

> MJR: The score is the fibs rating and it should be average out over
> a number of games to give a real indication of progress or even show
> any progress or lack thereof (ie -4 in red). Not too many games
> otherwise no change will be seen and not too few so that the score
> wildly fluctuates.

That's the difficulty of it: not too many, but not too few. Any value
is good ... 4 games ? 10 games ? Or 3 matches ? Or 10 matches ?
And in case of matches, equal weight for matches of different lengths ?
Progress in backgammon is slow, there's no point in checking it after each
match (except the curiosity of checking the error rate).
MJR: If I was doing it then I'd just start off at 4 and then get the program to adjust the number of games. If the evaluation is hardly changing then decrease the number and if it changes too much then increase the number.

> MJR: I'm sure the current system is fine for you guys but if you
> want feedback from average users then you need a system that is
> usable by average users. The current system is not - I can't even
> find this thread using it! If you base all your development
> decisions on the feedback through a utility like this then your
> decisions will be skewed entirely towards what a developer thinks a
> user wants and totally ignore real users as they are excluded.

Why don't you give the mailing list a try ? Many subrscibers are not
developpers. Subscribe (chose digest form or message form), send an email
and wait for the answer. Doesn't look that unfriendly ... it's much simpler
than a web-based forum.
MJR: I'm using the mailing list but it's not what you'd call feature rich. Take just putting in these responses - it's difficult to know who's responded to what without editing all the text around. I tried colouring my responses but that didn't work. Any forum software would allow you find your posts, look for similar posts without having to learn the black arts of regexp's. Plus I could easily quote, colour, highlight or put in italics any text I wished. What's more you could have sub forums for bugs, feature requests etc.


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