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Re: [Bug-gnubg] Re: New gnubg oddity?

From: Massimiliano Maini
Subject: Re: [Bug-gnubg] Re: New gnubg oddity?
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 14:59:56 +0200

Not sure it was clear in my message, but I agree with Louis.


address@hidden wrote on 07/05/2009 12:47:41:

> Hi,

> My feeling is that unless a user has requested "tutoring" he should not see
> analysis of his moves/cubeplay during a game. (Not sure about
> analysis of lucky rolls.) The analysis can be done during the game
> if that will save time later, but the results should not be
> displayed to the user unless he wants them.

> Louis

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Massimiliano Maini" <address@hidden>
> To: "christian anthon" <address@hidden>
> Cc: "bug-gnubg-bounces+massimiliano maini=amadeus com" <bug-gnubg-
> address@hidden>, "bug-gnubg" <bug-
> address@hidden>
> Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2009 6:23:33 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [Bug-gnubg] Re: New gnubg oddity?
> address@hidden wrote on
> 06/05/2009 16:29:20:
> > Why things work the way they do:
> >
> > a) it is desirable to analyse the computer player as you go along,
> > so as not to waste time during analysis after the game.
> > b) it is desirable to keep the analysis and the annotation in sync.
> > c) a double/no double analysis has to include a take/pass analysis
> > to get the right action
> > d) the take analysis belong with the double analysis so as not to waste time
> I do agree without hesitation on points b, c and d. Not really on point a.
> Users may want to have gnubg playing at, let's say, World Class since nowadays
> it's fast, but they may want to have the anlysis at GrandMaster.
> A slow analysis after the match is probably affordable, but not slow play.
> > For the computer the following is done
> > before roll:
> > a 0-ply assessment of our position in the double window. If this is
> > false no further double analysis is done, if true a full n-ply
> > double/no double // take/drop analysis is done.
> > after roll:
> > luck determination
> >
> > For the human player analysis is only done when the tutor is on.
> >
> > So what get's annotated when tutor is off is
> > A1) computer luck
> > A2) computer errors if the decision differs from a stored evaluation
> > B) player take/pass decisions (annotated, but not interrupted)
> > B1) Any decision where analysis is stored. That is if you for
> > example do hint on a chequer move and still choose an inferior move,
> > it gets annotated, but not interrupted.
> >
> > What has been changed is b)
> >
> > What I suggest when tutor is off:
> >
> > a) not doing luck analysis
> > b) not storing the double analysis obtained from the computer move
> >
> > It will cost a bit of time when analysing, but should otherwise be ok.
> To me, no tutor should mean no analysis at all (neither luck nor cubes,
> in or out of the doubling window).
> Thinking about all this stuff raised a few quetions/remarks in my mind:
> 1. I think I've already reported this a while ago: in the options
> window (settings/options/tutor) I have a draw bug: the frame "Tutor
> decisions" is too small and/or empty. See it here:
> http://www.hiboox.fr/go/images-100/tutorbug,
> 083b33b2d8dfb9273ce0693e94deaf29.png.html
> 2. Actually the whole tutor thing is in fact the union of 2 different
> things: "on the fly analysis" (decision by decision instead of at the
> end of the match), plus the warning mechanism in case of errors (only
> applicable for human players, of course).
> "on the fly analysis" is, to me, a feature by itself: it slows a bit
> the playing pace but at the end of the game/session/match the analysis
> is already available, no wait to know your error rate.
> I would go for:
>   1 option for "on the fly analysis" (both players, whether gnubg or human)
>         Values: none / same as eval / same as analysis
>   1 option for tutor (on human players)
>         values: warn on doubtful / bad / very bad / never
> Tutor option disabled if "on the fly analysis" is none.
> Minor remark: when "on the fly analysis" is ON, as soon as a game (or
> the entire match) is over we should have all the stats just like if an
> entire analysis is run: per game (and per match, if over) totals, error
> rates etc. If "on the fly analysis" is ON, there should be no need to
> (re)analyze the match/session/game again.
> 3. A final word about terminolgy: currently it's a bit misleading.
> The "Evaluation" settings act on the Hint command.
> My proposed "on the fly analysis" option can be set as "same as Analysis"
> or "same as Evaluation". Weird.
> I would do the following:
> - rename the current "Settings/Evaluation" to "Settings/Hint"
> - rename my "on the fly analysis" as "on the fly evaluation", with possible
> values none / same as hint / same as analysis
> MaX.
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