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| From: | olivier croisille |
| Subject: | Re: [Bug-gnubg] Wrong cube errors categories in analysis statistics panel |
| Date: | Wed, 01 Oct 2003 14:07:55 +0200 |
So, back to practical things as far as I'm concerned. I think our discussion illustrates the proverb "le mieux est l'ennemi du bien" as they say in French, no idea of the exact translation, if any, means something like "wanting to do something even better might just end up doing harm to what was already quite good".
Obviously no offence intended, I have too much respect for gnubg developpers, but IMHO we should just set back to former analysis doubling categories, that were perfectly satisfactory for all *practical* purposes and were not buggy (doubling error wrongly classified, see first post of the thread and its attachment)
Granted, in theory, it lacked analyzing players' doubling strategy around CP. But, again, in practical terms, the CP information is of very limited value-added, and just adds confusion :
- first, as Holger correctly stated, there is no such thing as a a 'Wrong double around cash point', so this stats line should disappear.
- now, what about 'Missed double around cash point"? Again, from a practical point of view : why would a player carry on playing around his CP? Surely he knows he has a double - otherwise, I should urge him to read Robertie's 501 three times in a row :-)) - because around CP his position must make him a large favorite in the game. So, if he plays the position instead of cashing it, in his mind it HAS to be a 'too good' problematic and reasoning. OK, I realize my explanation is a tad tedious, but I hope you'll get the picture. My point is 'Missed double around cash point", even if this is theoretically incorrect, should be merged with 'Missed double around TG', as was the case before, because in essence they refer to exactly the same nature of decision by players. Actually, since it was the cashing decision that was correct and missed, it even should be the other way round : it is 'Missed double around TG" that should be merged into 'Missed double around CP'
So I suggest getting back to former categories...
GNU FRENCHKISS
Missed doubles around DP 0 0
Missed doubles around TG 0 0
Wrong doubles around DP 0 0
Wrong doubles around TG 0 0
- and, yes, I chose on purpose a game where I made no mistake, wasn't that
easy to find :-) -
... but renaming 'Missed doubles around TG' in 'Missed doubles around CP', because again this illustrates better the nature of the decision that had to be made. But for the same reason I would leave 'Wrong doubles around TG' untouched, because here the position was indeed too good.
Olivier French Kiss on GG
From: Jim Segrave <address@hidden> Reply-To: address@hidden To: Holger <address@hidden> CC: olivier croisille <address@hidden>, address@hiddenSubject: Re: [Bug-gnubg] Wrong cube errors categories in analysis statistics panelDate: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 02:09:16 +0200 Warning - from someone whose theory is less than awe-inspiring" Imagine MSC as a line, increasing in value left to right: You lose------------------------------------------------You win gammon DP CP TG 1 | 2 3 | 4 5 | 6 The numbers represent regions of MWC. So for each region, the limits and associated errors: 1 = MWC < DP, error: double: wrong double around DP no double: no error take: no error drop: wrong drop round DP 2 = DP < MWC < .5 * ( DP + CP) double: no error no double: missed double around DP take: no error drop: wrong drop round DP 3 = .5 * ( DP + CP) < MWC < CP double: no error no double: missed double around CP take: no error drop: wrong drop round CP 4 = CP < MWC < .5 * (CP + TG) double: no error no double: missed double around CP take: wrong take around CP drop: no error 5 = .5 * (CP + TG) < MWC < TG double: no error no double: missed double around TG take: wrong take around TG drop: no error 6 = TG < MWC double: wrong double around TG no double: no error take: wrong take around TG drop: no error Re the other questions > Does someone know why getMatchPoints() does this and whether this is > intended? I can't reproduce this. From today's CVS, gdb output reformatted for ease of readability:Breakpoint 2, TheoryUpdated (pw=0x899c740, ptw=0x899b900) at gtktheory.c:3311: aaarPointsMatch = {{{0.42115128, 0.328579843}, {0.589850724, 0.589850724}, {0.759432137, 0.767605424}, {0.947443664, 0.767605424}}, {{0.240567863, 0.232394576}, {0.410149246, 0.410149246}, {0.57884872, 0.671420157}, {0.808395922, 0.671420157}}} (gdb) And for player 0 in the Market Window, I see the values exactly as reported above, converted to percentages. There's no swapping visible. For those who want to test this, this is from: GNU Backgammon Position ID: sLnJAEzYvg0ICA Match ID : cInxAAAACAAA > To categorize cubes gnubg compares the arithmetic means of DP and > CP, and CP and TG with the winning probabilities. Could someone > please explain me why (and confirm that) this is correct? See above, I think it is correct. > I'm wondering about the following: The winning probability > (aarOutput[ 0 ][ OUTPUT_WIN ]) doesn't include any added value for > gammon or bg chances (aarOutput[ 0 ][ OUTPUT_WINGAMMON ] and > aarOutput[ 0 ][ OUTPUT_WINBACKGAMMON ]). Those match points (DP, CP, > TG) have an entity of cubeful equity, don't they? And I think > equities are calculated as the sum of winning chances, gammon > chances and bg chances, thus include gammon and bg value. If all > this was correct so far, then I suppose these 2 values can't be > compared. This seems a good point - I think picking the point needs to be done in terms of MWC, it's not enough to do equity, since in some match points, gammons are irre;evant. -- Jim Segrave address@hidden
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