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bug#59141: 28.1.90; Face :extend when all the line but trailing \n is in
From: |
Kévin Le Gouguec |
Subject: |
bug#59141: 28.1.90; Face :extend when all the line but trailing \n is invisible |
Date: |
Fri, 11 Nov 2022 00:41:35 +0100 |
User-agent: |
Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) |
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> From: Kévin Le Gouguec <kevin.legouguec@gmail.com>
>> Cc: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net>, 59141@debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2022 23:19:42 +0100
>>
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>> > I said many times that people shouldn't willy-nilly use the :extent
>> > attribute, just because it looks cooler in some situation. The intent
>> > was and still is for faces not to have this attribute set, with very
>> > few very special exceptions, like the 'region' face. But people don't
>> > listen...
>>
>> FWIW, my motivation for setting :extend on outline headings doesn't stem
>> from aesthetics.
>>
>> Clearly delineating "sections" with colored backgrounds that span the
>> whole window width is a neat visual aid, IME;
>
> Do you see a contradiction between the last two sentences? Aren't
> "neat visual aid" and "aesthetics" synonyms?
"Visual aid" evokes accessibility and ergonomics; "aesthetics" are only
tangentially related to those concepts, in my understanding at least. I
would not consider them synonyms, FWIW.
AFAIU, accessibility and aesthetics are both connected to individual
preferences, and they're not completely independent; I still believe
that "making sections easier to spot" and "making sections prettier"
should not be conflated.
>> So this "visual aid" aspect is why I suspect reporters think being able
>> to :extend outline heading backgrounds is about as desirable as
>> :extending the hl-line or region faces, and it's a shame it breaks down
>> when folding.
>
> My suggestion is to use "other means" for such cues. Especially if
> you want to have that in modes that hide text, such as Org. The
> :extend attribute wasn't intended to support this usage.
Sure, and I'll take this opportunity to thank everyone who's worked on
outline.el and icons.el these past months - margin indicators and
icon-backed buttons are very welcome additions!
>> It's not a critical feature to be missing, and that motivation does not
>> invalidate the implementation challenges you highlight. I just wanted
>> to spell this point out FTR, as I didn't feel "it looks cooler" conveyed
>> it quite as convincingly 🙂
>
> I don't see the difference, really. "Cool" isn't a derogatory
> adjective, or at least I didn't mean it to be so.
My point wasn't to denounce derogatoryness but to try to reframe the
motivation for the feature. "Cool" does not suggest forethought,
"willy-nilly" does not suggest purpose; I think people who want
:extended backgrounds lack for neither forethought nor purpose.
(And I felt like it was worth making that point because it was not
discussed the last time around, AFAIR. In bug#52587, I mostly rambled
about the “abstract sense of what is and is not "part" of the subsection
to hide”; I don't recall us going into aesthetics nor accessibility)
Wouldn't want to belabor the point though; if I'm the only one who
thinks this distinction is any use, that's fair; apologies for the
noise.
- bug#59141: 28.1.90; Face :extend when all the line but trailing \n is invisible, (continued)
- bug#59141: 28.1.90; Face :extend when all the line but trailing \n is invisible, Eli Zaretskii, 2022/11/15
- bug#59141: 28.1.90; Face :extend when all the line but trailing \n is invisible, Ihor Radchenko, 2022/11/15
- bug#59141: 28.1.90; Face :extend when all the line but trailing \n is invisible, Eli Zaretskii, 2022/11/15
- bug#59141: 28.1.90; Face :extend when all the line but trailing \n is invisible, Ihor Radchenko, 2022/11/15
- bug#59141: 28.1.90; Face :extend when all the line but trailing \n is invisible, Eli Zaretskii, 2022/11/16
- bug#59141: 28.1.90; Face :extend when all the line but trailing \n is invisible, Juri Linkov, 2022/11/12
- bug#59141: 28.1.90; Face :extend when all the line but trailing \n is invisible, Eli Zaretskii, 2022/11/12
bug#59141: 28.1.90; Face :extend when all the line but trailing \n is invisible, Eli Zaretskii, 2022/11/09