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RE: [Axiom-developer] RE: cross-compiling Axiom

From: Bill Page
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] RE: cross-compiling Axiom
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:55:01 -0400

On September 5, 2006 10:26 AM Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> I'm quite disappointed by the very manner you approach this issue.

Likewise. :(
> I've bee made aware the Axiom build issue and started work on
> it.

I greatly appreciate all the work you have done on the Axiom
Silver build.improvements branch. I think it is great!

> With the goal of eventually having a system that can be 
> cross-compiled.

1) Why should we want Axiom to be cross-compiled?

I think there are many more important issues to address.
> You started out a few days ago claiming that anybody who speaks
> of cross-compilation of Axiom does not understand who Lisp works.
> If your assertion were true, it would effectively stop fruitless
> work in early stage and save resources.

I still think there is a fundamental misunderstanding.

> Therefore, I very politely requested that you elaborate in a
> comprehensive manner why you believe that. You very have
> consistently refused to explain yourself.

That is not true.

I have explained and so had David Mentre and a few other people
on this list.

> I've offered examples.  You either dismiss them, or turn around.

I have explained in detail why I dismiss them. In each case they
do not satisfy even your own definition of cross-compilation
when earlier you quoted:

in a response to Tim.

"Compiling a program takes place by running a compiler on the
build platform. The compiled program will run on the host platform.
Usually these two are the same; if they are different, the process
is called cross-compilation."

In the SBCL example, the program compilation is not complete until
after extensive initialization and the final 'save-system' which must
be done on the target system. The target is integrally involved in
the process. This is not cross-compilation. At best it attempts to
save a little time by doing *some* of the intermediate compilation
on the host. This is the same thing that Tim described as "cross-
mounting". In that case, the time required to compile SPAD and BOOT
to Lisp is saved by doing this only once on the host.

> And now, you complain I'm non-analytical and confrontational.
> That IS disappointing.

I said that because you have never answered any of my questions
in this thread. You have only been issuing "challenges". I've
numbered the questions 1) and 2) in this email just so you don't
miss them again. :)

> Please either explain yourself or let's stop this nonsense.

When Axiom is built using GCL, gcc becomes an integral part of
Axiom. Axiom cannot run without it. gcc is called every time you
define a function. So to run Axiom you must provide the gcc
environment. If you have the gcc environment, then GCL and Axiom
can be built on the target environment. 2) What is the point of
"jumping-through-hoops" to try to arrange that some part of the
build can take place on a host environment separate from the
target when in the end the target must have the same environment,
must be sufficiently powerful to run Axiom and must in any case
be involved in the creation of the resulting program?

Bill Page.

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