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Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: noweb


From: Gabriel Dos Reis
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: noweb
Date: 04 May 2006 16:48:07 +0200

"Page, Bill" <address@hidden> writes:

| On Thursday, May 04, 2006 4:54 AM Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| > 
| > Ralf Hemmecke writes:
| > 
| > | 
| > | Look at this...
| > | 
| http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/axiom-developer/2005-12/msg00262.html
| > 
| > Many thanks.
| > Obviously, there have been many talks about this noweb thingy.
| > I just don't understand why it lingers for so long.
| 
| Only because no one has taken the job of preparing and submitting
| a patch to Tim that he will accept. Obviously I could write this
| patch or even Tim could write this patch but that would not solve
| the real problem that we do not have enough developer resources.
| I would much rather spend a lot of time (repeatedly :) explaining
| this problem in as much detail as necessary in the hopes that we
| will eventually find someone (or even several people!) who are
| willing to work on this problem as a way of "getting their feet
| wet" (i.e. learning to do some simple axiom development).


I do hope we are close to a point where this will not pop up again :-)

[...]

| > | I would even say: Throw away the noweb sources, throw away
| > | this awk script and rather go to the Axiom sources and correct
| > | a usage of an undefined chunk. Why would one want to have
| > | undefined chunks in the first place?
| > 
| > If people agree that the undefined chunks are bugs, then this
| > whole noweb stuff is an unfortunate mystifying coverup.
| > 
| 
| If you read the above email carefully and actually try both
| Tim modified noweb and Norman Ramsey's patch you will see that
| this is *not* simply a problem of an undefined chunk. The
| problem is a collision of syntax that causes noweb to think
| that something is a chunk plus an escape mechanism that does
| not allow one to conveniently override this behavior.

I read the message saw other problems that people mentioned.  I
(mis)interpreted Ralf's statement as saying that it was a bug in noweb
-- that is now corrected.

| In the file '  src/interp/fnewmeta.lisp.pamphlet' the text:
| 
|   <<' Name '>>
| 
| is not really a reference to a chunk but noweb thinks it is
| and the standard (designed in) behavior of noweb when it
| finds such an "undefined chunk" is simply to omit it. This
| breaks the Axiom code.
| 
| Of course would could define this as a chunk using the noweb
| escape sequence @<<
| 
|   <<' Name '>>=
|   @<<' Name '>>
|   @  
| 
| and solve this one case where it is really a problem (or even
| use the escape sequence inline).

Thanks for re-detailing the issue.

At this point, here is my planning:

  (1) I'll finish my initial shot at the Autoconf styff; check it in
      the branch "build-improvements" so that I can have feedback.
      That work currently build noweb only if it is not system-installed.

  (2) Resolve the noweb issue: preferably include the newest version
      if it really corrects the bug; otherwise use your axiom-noweb
      script. 

  (3) Make a complete proposal for the silver branch.  I hope by that
      time we will resolve Tim's concerns.

Now, I have to do daytime job :-)

-- Gaby




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