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Re: [Adonthell-devel] Battle System

From: Ricardo Colon
Subject: Re: [Adonthell-devel] Battle System
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 19:42:51 -0500 (EST)

Joe, I'll read about your battle system as soon as I can, but I just
wanted to offer a few insights before I get back to doing work.

Personally, I like turn-based system much better, since you're given time
to think the battle through. Even though Grandia battle scheme is
turn-based, the battles are still "time-based", which that the timing of
your attack matters.

If you can create a real-time battle  system that amounts to more
than simply hack n' slash, I'd be happy. I have yet to see that. Fighting
monsters in Grandia feels like playing a game of chess. I think that's what
a battle should feel like.

Even with a real-time system, how are you going to deal with magic and
using items during battle. If you have to pause the battle every time in
order to bring up a menu to use magic and items, it might get annoying.
After all the battle should be real-time.

To answer the earlier question about Grandia, the battles are not done on
the map themselves. It cuts to a battle scene. However, you are able to
see your enemies in plain sight and avoid them if you managed to sneak by.
Also, if you sneak up from behind, you're given an advantage being on the
offensive immediately.

Ok. That's all.

                                        -- R:

On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Joseph Toscano wrote:

> First of all: I think that the next item on the design list should indeed be
> the battle system. There are usually two parts to an RPG, and I don't think
> Adonthell should be any different: there's the story development and then
> there's the battles, which is where the real meat of the game is. cirrus
> suggests that items should come next. However, items simply support the
> battle system. Therefore, items are part of it.
> Anywho, I agree with both cirrus and Ricardo: I think we have two clear-cut
> options for a battle system.
> 1) A turn-based battle system which initiates a seperate screen for the
> battle, and which is completely seperate from the map.
> 2) A real-time battle system that takes place on the actual map.
> My vote goes for #2. I'm a huge fan of the Secret of Mana battle engine.
> It's probably the most fun I've had with a battle engine ever. And if we
> improve upon that basic idea and add to it. . . then I think we'll have one
> really awesome battle system on our hands. I think it should be a definite
> departure from the overused and clich?d battle systems out there.
> My friend Marty and I (who are huge RPG freaks; we both love SoM to death,
> too) have been talking about this. Between the two of us, we came up with
> some specs for our "dream battle system," as cirrus calls it. Here it is:
> [*] The controls in the game would be a lot more "nimble" than they are now;
> it's way too tile-based for this battle system. Currently, when you attempt
> to move, you move flush from one square to another square. For this battle
> system to work, you need to be able to walk around freely without tile-based
> restrictions. This isn't to say that the scenery and such can't be
> tile-based, but . . . there needs to be a balance.
> [*] The other party members (I'd say about a total of three characters per
> party) follow the main character around and also do battle based upon AI.
> [*] The characters will have a few applicable stats, as opposed to a whole
> bunch of meaningless ones. The "Physical Attack" stat will determine how
> much physical damage the character can do. The "Physical Defense" stat will
> determine how well the character can absorb physical damage. "Magic Attack"
> and "Magic Defense" will do the same, just on the magic side of things.
> Another stat will be "Speed," to determine how quickly the character will
> recover (see below for details on the "recovery" system).
> [*] Each of the three party members are capable of doing physical damage
> with weapons. The weapons that the characters equip are a preset group of
> weapons that are found during the progression of the game's plot. This is
> opposed to, say, a system like Final Fantasy, where you are constantly
> finding and purchasing weapons; you don't stick with one weapon for long. If
> the weapons are a predesigned set of 5 or 6, it's a lot easier to manage and
> a lot more memorable. Each weapon would do something different: the whip
> would let you strike enemies from afar, the bow&arrow would let you shoot at
> enemies below you, and the sword and spear would be excellent for
> close-quarters combat. You can upgrade the weapons so as to increase their
> attack power. This would depend on the rest of the game: I think the upgrade
> process should perhaps tie into the plot. Or, for example, to upgrade your
> weapons, you'd have to visit each blacksmith in each town that you visit.
> Each blacksmith embues the weapons with more strength, so the more
> blacksmiths you visit, the stronger the weapons become. Something along
> those lines.
> [*] As far as magic goes, we came up with a total 0wnacious system. All of
> the monsters will have an inherent spell or set of spells inside them. Using
> a command that could be called something like "Copy," you can attempt to
> copy the spell from the monster and use it for yourself. Example: you're
> battling against some creepy Yeti monsters. The Yeti monster has the "Ice"
> spell in him. You initiate the "Copy" command and, based upon your current
> "Magic Attack" skill level, you *may* be able to copy the spell to your own
> spellbook. If this is your first time copying the "Ice" spell, you may only
> get something like 5% Power for the Ice spell. But each time you Copy the
> "Ice" spell, that Power percentage increases, and the spell becomes more
> effective. After a long while, the Ice spell may even reach 100% Power. Then
> it'll kick ass. ;P We came up with some other ideas based upon the same
> concept. Like, once your spell Power for the "Ice" spell reaches 100%, you
> can use a command called "Ultra Cast," which would drain the Power level
> down to 0%, but which would cast an insanely powerful instance of the spell.
> Then, of course, you'd have to build the spell all the way back to 100%. In
> my opinion, this idea kicks a whole lot of booty, and it's something
> horrendously unique. No lame MP and stuff. You won't have to keep buying an
> item to recharge your MP, etc. This would be extremely fun, methinks.
> [*] Now, the "recovery" system that I mentioned. Here's the thing: we can't
> just have the player slashing and casting spells at full power, one after
> the other in succession. The game would be horribly easy. Thus, there'll be
> a "recovery" time which will be calculated from the action the player takes,
> and from his "Speed" stat. The more "Speed," the faster the recovery. If,
> for example, the player slashes his sword at an enemy, it'll take one or two
> seconds (depending on the player's "Speed" stat) for the player to get back
> up to full power. Granted, you will be able to continue slashing away at the
> enemy, but if your "recovery meter" hasn't been charged up, chances are
> you'll either keep missing the enemy, or landing very weak blows. If you
> cast a spell, the recovery time will be much much longer, depending on the
> player's Speed stat, Magic Attack stat, and also the spell's Power level, as
> mentioned earlier. So if you cast the Ice spell early on in the game (where
> the Ice spell's power level will only be at something like 20%) it will take
> a healthy ten seconds to recover. This, I think, is a lot more effective
> than just limiting the player with a set number of points, like MP.
> [*] Two staples of the RPG world will, however, still apply: Hit Points (HP)
> and Experience Points (EXP). HP is, essentially, how much health you have
> before you die. EXP is gained through successful battles, and as your levels
> increase, so do your stats. With each levelup, though, I think the player
> should be able to choose which stats to increase, like in Diablo. That makes
> it a lot more customizable.
> Hmm. I think this is all we came up with. Anyway, it's a very cool and
> unique system. I bet a lot of you are going to freak out when you read this
> e-mail, but read it over two or three times and try to really understand it.
> ;P I do think Adonthell should depart from the rather cold and overdone D&D
> feel that a lot of RPGs are featuring today. Instead, it should follow more
> in the footsteps of Japanese RPGs, like FF and SoM.
> While I do think this system is something that should be seriously
> considered, I don't think it's set in stone. Changes would be cool. I think
> the only thing, though, that I'd be willing to defend is that the system
> should be based upon a real-time battle system on the actual map. That's
> probably the only big thing.
> --JT
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