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www/gnu linux-and-gnu.it.html po/linux-and-gnu....
From: |
Yavor Doganov |
Subject: |
www/gnu linux-and-gnu.it.html po/linux-and-gnu.... |
Date: |
Tue, 22 Nov 2011 01:27:06 +0000 |
CVSROOT: /web/www
Module name: www
Changes by: Yavor Doganov <yavor> 11/11/22 01:27:06
Modified files:
gnu : linux-and-gnu.it.html
gnu/po : linux-and-gnu.it.po
Added files:
gnu/po : linux-and-gnu.it-en.html
Log message:
Automatic update by GNUnited Nations.
CVSWeb URLs:
http://web.cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewcvs/www/gnu/linux-and-gnu.it.html?cvsroot=www&r1=1.11&r2=1.12
http://web.cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewcvs/www/gnu/po/linux-and-gnu.it.po?cvsroot=www&r1=1.17&r2=1.18
http://web.cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewcvs/www/gnu/po/linux-and-gnu.it-en.html?cvsroot=www&rev=1.1
Patches:
Index: linux-and-gnu.it.html
===================================================================
RCS file: /web/www/www/gnu/linux-and-gnu.it.html,v
retrieving revision 1.11
retrieving revision 1.12
diff -u -b -r1.11 -r1.12
--- linux-and-gnu.it.html 25 Oct 2011 08:45:20 -0000 1.11
+++ linux-and-gnu.it.html 22 Nov 2011 01:26:56 -0000 1.12
@@ -137,12 +137,12 @@
renderlo usabile da parte del pubblico. </p>
<p>
-Per fortuna, non è stato necessario aspettare che fosse
-finito. Quando Torvalds finì Linux, il suo kernel colmò
-l'ultimo vuoto principale del sistema GNU. Fu quindi <a
-href="http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/Historic/old-versions/RELNOTES-0.01">possibile</a>
-mettere insieme Linux e il sistema GNU per ottenere un sistema libero
-completo: una versione del sistema GNU basata su Linux: il sistema
+Per fortuna, non è stato necessario aspettare che Hurd fosse finito. Quando
+Torvalds finì Linux, il suo kernel colmò l'ultimo vuoto principale del
+sistema GNU. Fu quindi possibile <a
+href="http://ftp.funet.fi/pub/linux/historical/kernel/old-versions/RELNOTES-0.01">mettere
+insieme Linux e il sistema GNU</a> per ottenere un sistema libero completo:
+una versione del sistema GNU basata su Linux o, in breve, il sistema
GNU/Linux.</p>
<p>
@@ -309,10 +309,12 @@
Tradotto originariamente da Emiliano Grilli e Alessandro Rubini. Modifiche
successive di Giorgio V. Felchero e Paola Blason - bfteam, Dora Scilipoti,
Andrea Pescetti, Francesco Potortì, Marco Ciampa.</div>
+
+
<p><!-- timestamp start -->
Ultimo aggiornamento:
-$Date: 2011/10/25 08:45:20 $
+$Date: 2011/11/22 01:26:56 $
<!-- timestamp end -->
</p>
@@ -338,67 +340,97 @@
<!-- use the 3-letter ISO 639-2. -->
<!-- Please use W3C normative character entities. -->
<!-- -->
-<!-- <gnun>
-<ul class="translations-list"> -->
+<!-- <ul class="translations-list">
+ -->
<!-- Arabic -->
-<!-- <li><a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.ar.html">العربية</a> [ar]</li>
-->
+<!-- <li>
+<a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.ar.html">العربية</a> [ar]</li>
-->
<!-- Bulgarian -->
-<!-- <li><a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.bg.html">български</a> [bg]</li>
-->
+<!-- <li>
+<a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.bg.html">български</a> [bg]</li>
-->
<!-- Bosnian -->
-<!-- <li><a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.bs.html">bosanski</a> [bs]</li> -->
+<!-- <li>
+<a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.bs.html">bosanski</a> [bs]</li> -->
<!-- Catalan -->
-<!-- <li><a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.ca.html">català</a> [ca]</li>
-->
+<!-- <li>
+<a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.ca.html">català</a> [ca]</li> -->
<!-- Czech -->
-<!-- <li><a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.cs.html">Česky</a> [cs]</li> -->
+<!-- <li>
+<a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.cs.html">Česky</a> [cs]</li> -->
<!-- German -->
-<!-- <li><a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.de.html">Deutsch</a> [de]</li> -->
+<!-- <li>
+<a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.de.html">Deutsch</a> [de]</li> -->
<!-- Greek -->
-<!-- <li><a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.el.html">ελληνικά</a> [el]</li>
-->
+<!-- <li>
+<a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.el.html">ελληνικά</a> [el]</li>
-->
<!-- English -->
-<!-- <li><a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html">English</a> [en]</li> -->
+<!-- <li>
+<a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html">English</a> [en]</li> -->
<!-- Spanish -->
-<!-- <li><a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.es.html">español</a> [es]</li> -->
+<!-- <li>
+<a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.es.html">español</a> [es]</li> -->
<!-- Farsi/Persian -->
-<!-- <li><a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.fa.html">فارسی</a> [fa]</li>
-->
+<!-- <li>
+<a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.fa.html">فارسی</a> [fa]</li>
-->
<!-- French -->
-<!-- <li><a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.fr.html">français</a> [fr]</li> -->
+<!-- <li>
+<a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.fr.html">français</a> [fr]</li> -->
<!-- Hebrew -->
-<!-- <li><a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.he.html">עברית</a> [he]</li>
-->
+<!-- <li>
+<a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.he.html">עברית</a> [he]</li>
-->
<!-- Indonesian -->
-<!-- <li><a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.id.html">Bahasa
Indonesia</a> [id]</li> -->
+<!-- <li>
+<a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.id.html">Bahasa Indonesia</a> [id]</li> -->
<!-- Italian -->
-<!-- <li><a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.it.html">italiano</a> [it]</li> -->
+<!-- <li>
+<a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.it.html">italiano</a> [it]</li> -->
<!-- Japanese -->
-<!-- <li><a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.ja.html">日本語</a> [ja]</li>
-->
+<!-- <li>
+<a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.ja.html">日本語</a> [ja]</li>
-->
<!-- Korean -->
-<!-- <li><a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.ko.html">한국어</a> [ko]</li>
-->
+<!-- <li>
+<a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.ko.html">한국어</a> [ko]</li>
-->
<!-- Malayalam -->
-<!-- <li><a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.ml.html">മലയാളം</a> [ml]</li>
-->
+<!-- <li>
+<a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.ml.html">മലയാളം</a> [ml]</li>
-->
<!-- Dutch -->
-<!-- <li><a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.nl.html">Nederlands</a> [nl]</li> -->
+<!-- <li>
+<a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.nl.html">Nederlands</a> [nl]</li> -->
<!-- Polish -->
-<!-- <li><a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.pl.html">polski</a> [pl]</li> -->
+<!-- <li>
+<a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.pl.html">polski</a> [pl]</li> -->
<!-- Brazilian Portuguese -->
-<!-- <li><a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.pt-br.html">português do
Brasil</a> [pt-br]</li> -->
+<!-- <li>
+<a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.pt-br.html">português do
Brasil</a> [pt-br]</li> -->
<!-- Romanian -->
-<!-- <li><a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.ro.html">română</a> [ro]</li> -->
+<!-- <li>
+<a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.ro.html">română</a> [ro]</li>
-->
<!-- Russian -->
-<!-- <li><a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.ru.html">русский</a> [ru]</li>
-->
+<!-- <li>
+<a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.ru.html">русский</a> [ru]</li>
-->
<!-- Serbo-Croatian -->
-<!-- <li><a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.sh.html">srpsko-hrvatski</a> [sh]</li> -->
+<!-- <li>
+<a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.sh.html">srpsko-hrvatski</a> [sh]</li> -->
<!-- Slovenian -->
-<!-- <li><a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.sl.html">slovenščina</a> [sl]</li> -->
+<!-- <li>
+<a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.sl.html">slovenščina</a> [sl]</li> -->
<!-- Serbian -->
-<!-- <li><a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.sr.html">српски</a> [sr]</li>
-->
+<!-- <li>
+<a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.sr.html">српски</a> [sr]</li>
-->
<!-- Tagalog -->
-<!-- <li><a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.tl.html">Tagalog</a> [tl]</li> -->
+<!-- <li>
+<a href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.tl.html">Tagalog</a> [tl]</li> -->
<!-- Tamil -->
-<!-- <li><a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.ta.html">தமிழ்</a> [ta]</li>
-->
+<!-- <li>
+<a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.ta.html">தமிழ்</a> [ta]</li>
-->
<!-- Chinese (Simplified) -->
-<!-- <li><a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.zh-cn.html">简体中文</a> [zh-cn]</li>
-->
+<!-- <li>
+<a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.zh-cn.html">简体中文</a> [zh-cn]</li>
-->
<!-- Chinese (Traditional) -->
-<!-- <li><a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.zh-tw.html">繁體中文</a> [zh-tw]</li>
-->
-<!-- </ul></gnun> -->
+<!-- <li>
+<a
href="/gnu/linux-and-gnu.zh-tw.html">繁體中文</a> [zh-tw]</li>
-->
+<!-- </ul>
+ -->
<!-- </div>
-->
</div>
Index: po/linux-and-gnu.it.po
===================================================================
RCS file: /web/www/www/gnu/po/linux-and-gnu.it.po,v
retrieving revision 1.17
retrieving revision 1.18
diff -u -b -r1.17 -r1.18
--- po/linux-and-gnu.it.po 21 Nov 2011 22:18:46 -0000 1.17
+++ po/linux-and-gnu.it.po 22 Nov 2011 01:27:01 -0000 1.18
@@ -15,7 +15,6 @@
"MIME-Version: 1.0\n"
"Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8\n"
"Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit\n"
-"Outdated-Since: 2011-11-20 20:25-0500\n"
"X-Poedit-Language: Italian\n"
"X-Poedit-Country: ITALY\n"
"X-Poedit-SourceCharset: utf-8\n"
@@ -293,13 +292,6 @@
# type: Content of: <p>
#. type: Content of: <p>
-#| msgid ""
-#| "Fortunately, we didn't have to wait for the Hurd, because of Linux. Once "
-#| "Torvalds wrote Linux, it fit into the last major gap in the GNU system. "
-#| "People could then <a href=\"http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/"
-#| "Historic/old-versions/RELNOTES-0.01\"> combine Linux with the GNU system</"
-#| "a> to make a complete free system: a Linux-based version of the GNU "
-#| "system; the GNU/Linux system, for short."
msgid ""
"Fortunately, we didn't have to wait for the Hurd, because of Linux. Once "
"Torvalds wrote Linux, it fit into the last major gap in the GNU system. "
Index: po/linux-and-gnu.it-en.html
===================================================================
RCS file: po/linux-and-gnu.it-en.html
diff -N po/linux-and-gnu.it-en.html
--- /dev/null 1 Jan 1970 00:00:00 -0000
+++ po/linux-and-gnu.it-en.html 22 Nov 2011 01:27:01 -0000 1.1
@@ -0,0 +1,377 @@
+<!--#include virtual="/server/header.html" -->
+
+<title>Linux and GNU - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF)</title>
+
+<meta http-equiv="Keywords" content="GNU, FSF, Free Software Foundation,
Linux, Emacs, GCC, Unix, Free Software, Operating System, GNU Kernel, HURD, GNU
HURD, Hurd" />
+<meta http-equiv="Description" content="Since 1983, developing the free Unix
style operating system GNU, so that computer users can have the freedom to
share and improve the software they use." />
+<link rel="alternate" title="What's New"
href="http://www.gnu.org/rss/whatsnew.rss" type="application/rss+xml" />
+<link rel="alternate" title="New Free Software"
href="http://www.gnu.org/rss/quagga.rss" type="application/rss+xml" />
+
+<!--#include virtual="/server/banner.html" -->
+<!--#include virtual="/gnu/po/linux-and-gnu.translist" -->
+
+<h2>Linux and the GNU Project</h2>
+
+<p><strong>by <a href="http://www.stallman.org/">Richard
Stallman</a></strong></p>
+
+<div class="announcement">
+ <blockquote><p>For more information see also
+the <a href="/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html">GNU/Linux FAQ</a>,
+and <a href="/gnu/why-gnu-linux.html">Why GNU/Linux?</a></p>
+ </blockquote>
+</div>
+
+<p>
+Many computer users run a modified version of
+<a href="/philosophy/categories.html#TheGNUsystem">the GNU system</a>
+every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events,
+the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called
+“Linux”, and many of its users
+are <a href="/gnu/gnu-users-never-heard-of-gnu.html"> not aware</a>
+that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the
+<a href="/gnu/gnu-history.html">GNU Project</a>.</p>
+
+<p>
+There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just
+a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in
+the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other
+programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an
+operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the
+context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in
+combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is
+basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called
+“Linux” distributions are really distributions of
+GNU/Linux.</p>
+
+<p>
+Many users do not understand the difference between the kernel, which
+is Linux, and the whole system, which they also call
+“Linux”. The ambiguous use of the name doesn't help
+people understand. These users often think that Linus Torvalds
+developed the whole operating system in 1991, with a bit of help.</p>
+
+<p>
+Programmers generally know that Linux is a kernel. But since they
+have generally heard the whole system called “Linux” as well, they
+often envisage a history that would justify naming the whole system
+after the kernel. For example, many believe that once Linus Torvalds
+finished writing Linux, the kernel, its users looked around for other
+free software to go with it, and found that (for no particular reason)
+most everything necessary to make a Unix-like system was already
+available.</p>
+
+<p>
+What they found was no accident—it was the not-quite-complete GNU
+system. The available <a href="/philosophy/free-sw.html">free
+software</a> added up to a complete system because the GNU Project
+had been working since 1984 to make one. In
+the <a href="/gnu/manifesto.html"> The GNU Manifesto</a> we set forth
+the goal of developing a free Unix-like
+system, called GNU. The <a href="/gnu/initial-announcement.html">
+Initial Announcement</a> of the GNU Project also outlines some of the
+original plans for the GNU system. By the time Linux was started, GNU
+was almost finished.</p>
+
+<p>
+Most free software projects have the goal of developing a particular
+program for a particular job. For example, Linus Torvalds set out to
+write a Unix-like kernel (Linux); Donald Knuth set out to write a text
+formatter (TeX); Bob Scheifler set out to develop a window system (the
+X Window System). It's natural to measure the contribution of this
+kind of project by specific programs that came from the project.</p>
+
+<p>
+If we tried to measure the GNU Project's contribution in this way,
+what would we conclude? One CD-ROM vendor found that in their “Linux
+distribution”, <a href="/philosophy/categories.html#GNUsoftware">GNU
+software</a> was the largest single contingent, around 28% of the
+total source code, and this included some of the essential major
+components without which there could be no system. Linux itself was
+about 3%. (The proportions in 2008 are similar: in the “main”
+repository of gNewSense, Linux is 1.5% and GNU packages are 15%.)
+So if you were going to pick a name for the system based on
+who wrote the programs in the system, the most appropriate single
+choice would be “GNU”.</p>
+
+<p>
+But that is not the deepest way to consider the question. The GNU
+Project was not, is not, a project to develop specific software
+packages. It was not a project <a href="/software/gcc/"> to
+develop a C compiler</a>, although we did that. It was not a project
+to develop a text editor, although we developed one. The GNU Project
+set out to develop <em>a complete free Unix-like system</em>: GNU.</p>
+
+<p>
+Many people have made major contributions to the free software in the
+system, and they all deserve credit for their software. But the
+reason it is <em>an integrated system</em>—and not just a
+collection of useful programs—is because the GNU Project set out
+to make it one. We made a list of the programs needed to make
+a <em>complete</em> free system, and we systematically found, wrote,
+or found people to write everything on the list. We wrote essential
+but unexciting
+<a href="#unexciting">(1)</a> components because you can't have a system
+without them. Some of our system components, the programming tools,
+became popular on their own among programmers, but we wrote many
+components that are not tools <a href="#nottools">(2)</a>. We even
+developed a chess game, GNU Chess, because a complete system needs
+games too.</p>
+
+<p>
+By the early 90s we had put together the whole system aside from the
+kernel. We had also started a kernel, the
+<a href="/software/hurd/hurd.html">GNU Hurd</a>, which runs on top of
+Mach. Developing this kernel has been a lot harder than we expected;
+<a href="/software/hurd/hurd/documentation/hurd-and-linux.html">the
+GNU Hurd started working reliably in 2001</a>, but it is a long way
+from being ready for people to use in general.</p>
+
+<p>
+Fortunately, we didn't have to wait for the Hurd, because of Linux.
+Once Torvalds wrote Linux, it fit into the last major gap in the GNU
+system. People could then <a
+href="http://ftp.funet.fi/pub/linux/historical/kernel/old-versions/RELNOTES-0.01">
+combine Linux with the GNU system</a> to make a complete free
+system: a Linux-based version of the GNU system; the GNU/Linux system,
+for short.</p>
+
+<p>
+Making them work well together was not a trivial job. Some GNU
+components<a href="#somecomponents">(3)</a> needed substantial change
+to work with Linux. Integrating a complete system as a distribution
+that would work “out of the box” was a big job, too. It
+required addressing the issue of how to install and boot the
+system—a problem we had not tackled, because we hadn't yet
+reached that point. Thus, the people who developed the various system
+distributions did a lot of essential work. But it was work that, in
+the nature of things, was surely going to be done by someone.</p>
+
+<p>
+The GNU Project supports GNU/Linux systems as well as <em>the</em> GNU
+system. The <a href="http://fsf.org/">FSF</a> funded the rewriting of
+the Linux-related extensions to the GNU C library, so that now they
+are well integrated, and the newest GNU/Linux systems use the current
+library release with no changes. The FSF also funded an early stage
+of the development of Debian GNU/Linux.</p>
+
+<p>
+Today there are many different variants of the GNU/Linux system (often
+called “distros”). Most of them include non-free
+software—their developers follow the philosophy associated with
+Linux rather than that of GNU. But there are also
+<a href="/distros/">completely free GNU/Linux distros</a>. The FSF
+supports computer facilities for two of these
+distributions, <a href="http://ututo.org">Ututo</a>
+and <a href="http://gnewsense.org/">gNewSense</a>.</p>
+
+<p>Making a free GNU/Linux distribution is not just a matter of
+eliminating various non-free programs. Nowadays, the usual version of
+Linux contains non-free programs too. These programs are intended to
+be loaded into I/O devices when the system starts, and they are
+included, as long series of numbers, in the "source code" of Linux.
+Thus, maintaining free GNU/Linux distributions now entails maintaining
+a <a href="http://directory.fsf.org/project/linux"> free version of
+Linux</a> too.</p>
+
+<p>Whether you use GNU/Linux or not, please don't confuse the public
+by using the name “Linux” ambiguously. Linux is the
+kernel, one of the essential major components of the system. The
+system as a whole is basically the GNU system, with Linux added. When
+you're talking about this combination, please call it
+“GNU/Linux”.</p>
+
+<p>
+If you want to make a link on “GNU/Linux” for further
+reference, this page and <a href="/gnu/the-gnu-project.html">
+http://www.gnu.org/gnu/the-gnu-project.html</a> are good choices. If
+you mention Linux, the kernel, and want to add a link for further
+reference, <a href="http://foldoc.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?Linux">
+http://foldoc.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?Linux</a> is a good URL
+to use.</p>
+
+<p>
+Addendum: Aside from GNU, one other project has independently produced
+a free Unix-like operating system. This system is known as BSD, and
+it was developed at UC Berkeley. It was non-free in the 80s, but
+became free in the early 90s. A free operating system that exists
+today<a href="#newersystems">(4)</a> is almost certainly either a
+variant of the GNU system, or a kind of BSD system.</p>
+
+<p>
+People sometimes ask whether BSD too is a version of GNU, like
+GNU/Linux. The BSD developers were inspired to make their code free
+software by the example of the GNU Project, and explicit appeals from
+GNU activists helped persuade them, but the code had little overlap
+with GNU. BSD systems today use some GNU programs, just as the GNU
+system and its variants use some BSD programs; however, taken as
+wholes, they are two different systems that evolved separately. The
+BSD developers did not write a kernel and add it to the GNU system,
+and a name like GNU/BSD would not fit the situation.<a
+href="#gnubsd">(5)</a></p>
+
+<h3>Notes:</h3>
+<ol>
+<li>
+<a id="unexciting"></a>These unexciting but essential components
+include the GNU assembler, GAS and the linker, GLD, both
+are now part of the <a href="/software/binutils/">GNU Binutils</a>
+package, <a href="/software/tar/">GNU tar</a>, and more.</li>
+
+<li>
+<a id="nottools"></a>For instance, The Bourne Again SHell (BASH),
+the PostScript interpreter
+<a href="/software/ghostscript/ghostscript.html">Ghostscript</a>, and the
+<a href="/software/libc/libc.html">GNU C library</a> are not
+programming tools. Neither are GNUCash, GNOME, and GNU Chess.</li>
+
+<li>
+<a id="somecomponents"></a>For instance, the
+<a href="/software/libc/libc.html">GNU C library</a>.</li>
+
+<li>
+<a id="newersystems"></a>Since that was written, a nearly-all-free
+Windows-like system has been developed, but technically it is not at
+all like GNU or Unix, so it doesn't really affect this issue. Most of
+the kernel of Solaris has been made free, but if you wanted to make a
+free system out of that, aside from replacing the missing parts of the
+kernel, you would also need to put it into GNU or BSD.</li>
+
+<li>
+<a id="gnubsd"></a>On the other hand, in the years since this article
+was written, the GNU C Library has been ported to several versions of
+the BSD kernel, which made it straightforward to combine the GNU system
+with that kernel. Just as with GNU/Linux, these are indeed variants of
+GNU, and are therefore called, for instance, GNU/kFreeBSD and
+GNU/kNetBSD depending on the kernel of the system. Ordinary users on
+typical desktops can hardly distinguish between GNU/Linux and
+GNU/*BSD.</li>
+
+</ol>
+
+<!-- All pages on the GNU web server should have the section about -->
+<!-- verbatim copying. Please do NOT remove this without talking -->
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