Re: [Qemu-devel] [RFC] QMP: add query-hotpluggable-cpus

[Igor Mammedov]

On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 13:54:32 +1100
David Gibson <address@hidden> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 04:49:11PM +0100, Igor Mammedov wrote:
> > On Fri, 19 Feb 2016 15:38:48 +1100
> > David Gibson <address@hidden> wrote:
> > 
> > CCing thread a couple of libvirt guys.
> >   
> > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 11:37:39AM +0100, Igor Mammedov wrote:  
> > > > On Thu, 18 Feb 2016 14:39:52 +1100
> > > > David Gibson <address@hidden> wrote:
> > > >     
> > > > > On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 11:36:55AM +0100, Igor Mammedov wrote:    
> > > > > > On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 20:43:41 +0100
> > > > > > Markus Armbruster <address@hidden> wrote:
> > > > > >       
> > > > > > > Igor Mammedov <address@hidden> writes:
> > > > > > >       
> > > > > > > > it will allow mgmt to query present and possible to hotplug CPUs
> > > > > > > > it is required from a target platform that wish to support
> > > > > > > > command to set board specific MachineClass.possible_cpus() hook,
> > > > > > > > which will return a list of possible CPUs with options
> > > > > > > > that would be needed for hotplugging possible CPUs.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For RFC there are:
> > > > > > > >    'arch_id': 'int' - mandatory unique CPU number,
> > > > > > > >                       for x86 it's APIC ID for ARM it's MPIDR
> > > > > > > >    'type': 'str' - CPU object type for usage with device_add
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > and a set of optional fields that would allows mgmt tools
> > > > > > > > to know at what granularity and where a new CPU could be
> > > > > > > > hotplugged;
> > > > > > > > [node],[socket],[core],[thread]
> > > > > > > > Hopefully that should cover needs for CPU hotplug porposes for
> > > > > > > > magor targets and we can extend structure in future adding
> > > > > > > > more fields if it will be needed.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > also for present CPUs there is a 'cpu_link' field which
> > > > > > > > would allow mgmt inspect whatever object/abstraction
> > > > > > > > the target platform considers as CPU object.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For RFC purposes implements only for x86 target so far.        
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Adding ad hoc queries as we go won't scale.  Could this be solved 
> > > > > > > by a
> > > > > > > generic introspection interface?      
> > > > > > Do you mean generic QOM introspection?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Using QOM we could have '/cpus' container and create QOM links
> > > > > > for exiting (populated links) and possible (empty links) CPUs.
> > > > > > However in that case link's name will need have a special format
> > > > > > that will convey an information necessary for mgmt to hotplug
> > > > > > a CPU object, at least:
> > > > > >   - where: [node],[socket],[core],[thread] options
> > > > > >   - optionally what CPU object to use with device_add command      
> > > > > 
> > > > > Hmm.. is it not enough to follow the link and get the topology
> > > > > information by examining the target?    
> > > > One can't follow a link if it's an empty one, hence
> > > > CPU placement information should be provided somehow,
> > > > either:    
> > > 
> > > Ah, right, so the issue is determining the socket/core/thread
> > > addresses that cpus which aren't yet present will have.
> > >   
> > > >  * by precreating cpu-package objects with properties that
> > > >    would describe it /could be inspected via OQM/    
> > > 
> > > So, we could do this, but I think the natural way would be to have the
> > > information for each potential thread in the package.  Just putting
> > > say "core number" in the package itself assumes more than I'd like
> > > about how packages sit in the heirarchy.  Plus, it means that
> > > management has a bunch of cases to deal with: package has all the
> > > information, package has just a core id, package has just a socket id,
> > > and so forth.
> > > 
> > > It is a but clunky that when the package is plugged, this information
> > > will have to sit parallel to the array of actual thread links.
> > >
> > > Markus or Andreas is there a natural way to present a list of (node,
> > > socket, core, thread) tuples in the package object?  Preferably
> > > without having to create a whole bunch of "potential thread" objects
> > > just for the purpose.  
> > I'm sorry but I couldn't parse above 2 paragraphs. The way I see
> > whatever placement info QEMU will provide to mgmt, mgmt will have
> > to deal with it in one way or another.
> > Perhaps rephrasing and adding some examples might help to explain
> > suggestion a bit better?  
> 
> Ok, so what I'm saying is that I think describing a location for the
> package itself could be problematic.  For some cases it will be ok,
> but depending on exactly what the package represents on a particular
> platform there could be a lot of options for how to represent it.
> 
> What I'm suggesting instead is that instead of giving a location for
> itself, the package lists the locations of all the threads it will
> contain when it is enabled/present/whatever.  Those locations can be
> given as node/socket/core/thread tuples - which are properties that
> cpu threads already need to have, so we're not making the possible
> inadequacy of that information any worse than it already was.
> 
> Examples.. so I'm not really sure how to write QOM objects, but I hope
> this is clear enough:
> 
> On x86
>       .../cpu-package[0]              (type 'acpi-thread')
>              present = true
>              location[0] = (node 0, socket 0, core 0, thread 0)
>              thread[0] = <link to cpu thread object>
>       .../cpu-package[1]              (type 'acpi-thread')
>              present = false
>              location[0] = (node 0, socket 0, core 0, thread 1)
> 
> On Power
>       .../cpu-package[0]              (type 'spapr-core')
>              present = true
>              location[0] = (node 0, socket 0, core 0, thread 0)
>              location[1] = (node 0, socket 0, core 0, thread 1)
>              ...
>              location[7] = (node 0, socket 0, core 0, thread 7)
>              thread[0] = <link...>
>              ...
>              thread[7] = >link...>
>       .../cpu-package[1]              (type 'spapr-core')
>              present = false
>              location[0] = (node 0, socket 0, core 0, thread 0)
>              location[1] = (node 0, socket 0, core 0, thread 1)
>              ...
>              location[7] = (node 0, socket 0, core 0, thread 7)
> 
> Does that make sense?
> 
> > > > or
> > > >  * via QMP/HMP command that would provide the same information
> > > >    only without need to precreate anything. The only difference
> > > >    is that it allows to use -device/device_add for new CPUs.    
> > > 
> > > I'd be ok with that option as well.  I'd be thinking it would be
> > > implemented via a class method on the package object which returns the
> > > addresses that its contained threads will have, whether or not they're
> > > present right now.  Does that make sense?  
> > In this RFC it's MachineClass.possible_cpus method which is a bit more
> > flexible as it allows a board to describe possible CPU devices (whatever
> > they might be: sockets|cores|threads|some_chip_module) and their properties
> > without forcing board to precreate cpu_package objects which should convey
> > the same info one way or another.  
> 
> Hmm.. so my RFC so far (at least the revised version based on
> Eduardo's comments) is that the cpu_package objects are always
> precreated.  In future we might allow dynamic construction, but that
> will require a bunch more thinking to designt the right interfaces.
> 
> > > > Considering that we would need to create HMP command so user could
> > > > inspect possible CPUs from monitor, it would need to do the same as
> > > > QMP command regardless of whether it's cpu-package objects or
> > > > just board calculated info a runtime.
> > > >      
> > > > > In the design Eduardo and I have been discussing we're actually not
> > > > > planning to allow device_add to construct CPU packages - at least, not
> > > > > for the time being.  The idea is that the machine type will construct
> > > > > enough packages for maxcpus, and management just toggles them on and
> > > > > off.    
> > > > Another question is how it would work wrt migration?    
> > > 
> > > I'm assuming the "present" bits would be added to the migration
> > > stream; seems straightforward enough to me.  Is there some
> > > consideration I'm missing?  
> > It's hard to estimate how cpu-package objects might complicate
> > migration. It should not break migration for old machine types
> > and if possible it should work for backwards migration to older
> > QEMU versions (to be downstream friendly).  
> 
> So, the simple way to achieve that is to only instantiate the
> cpu-package objects on newer machine types.  Older machine types will
> instatiate the cpu threads directly from the machine type in the old
> way, and (except for x86) won't allow cpu hotplug.
> 
> I think that's a reasonable first approach.  Later we can look at
> migrating a non-package setup to a package setup, if it looks like
> that will be useful.
> 
> > If we go typical '-device/device_add whatever_cpu_device,foo_options_list'
> > route then it would allow us to replicate older device models without
> > issues (I don't expect any in x86 case) as it's what CPUs are now under the 
> > hood.
> > This RFC doesn't force us to re-factor device models in order to use
> > hotplug (where CPU objects are already self-sufficient devices/hotplug 
> > capable).
> > 
> > It rather tries completely split interface aspect from how we are
> > internally model CPU hotplug, and tries to solve issue with
> > 
> >  -device/device_add for which we need to provide
> >    'what type to plug' and 'where to plug, which options to set to what'
> > 
> > It's 1st level per you proposal, later we can do 2nd level on top of it
> > using cpu-packages(flip present property) to simplify mgmt's job
> > if it still would really needed (i.e. mgmt won't be able to cope with
> > -device, which it already has support for).  
> 
> Yeah.. so the thing is, in the short term I'm really more interested
> in the 2nd layer interface.  It's something we can actually use,
> whereas the 1st layer interfaace still has a lot of potential
> complications.
What complications do you see from POWER point if view?


> This is why Eduardo suggested - and I agreed - that it's probably
> better to implement the "1st layer" as an internal structure/interface
> only, and implement the 2nd layer on top of that.  When/if we need to
> we can revisit a user-accessible interface to the 1st layer.
We are going around QOM based CPU introspecting interface for
years now and that's exactly what 2nd layer is, just another
implementation. I've just lost hope in this approach.

What I'm suggesting in this RFC is to forget controversial
QOM approach for now and use -device/device_add + QMP introspection,
i.e. completely split interface from how boards internally implement
CPU hotplug.

> 
> So, thinking about this again - and Edaurdo also suggested this - it
> really looks like cpu-package should be a QOM interface, rather than a
> QOM type.  Machine will have a flat array of links to each CPU package
> object (regardless of their platform specific construction), and each
> CPU package will have a flat array of links to contained thread
> (regardless of what other information they have specific to their type).
> 
> > > > > We can eventually allow construction of new packages with device_add,
> > > > > but for now that gets hidden inside the platform until we've worked
> > > > > out more details.
> > > > >     
> > > > > > Another approach to do QOM introspection would be to model 
> > > > > > hierarchy 
> > > > > > of objects like node/socket/core..., That's what Andreas
> > > > > > worked on. Only it still suffers the same issue as above
> > > > > > wrt introspection and hotplug, One can pre-create empty
> > > > > > [nodes][sockets[cores]] containers at startup but then
> > > > > > leaf nodes that could be hotplugged would be a links anyway
> > > > > > and then again we need to give them special formatted names
> > > > > > (not well documented at that mgmt could make sense of).
> > > > > > That hierarchy would need to become stable ABI once
> > > > > > mgmt will start using it and QOM tree is quite unstable
> > > > > > now for that. For some targets it involves creating dummy
> > > > > > containers like node/socket/core for x86 where just modeling
> > > > > > a thread is sufficient.      
> > > > > 
> > > > > I'd prefer to avoid exposing the node/socket/core heirarchy through
> > > > > the QOM interfaces as much as possible.  Although all systems I know
> > > > > of have a heirarchy something like that, exactly what the levels may
> > > > > vary, so I think it's better not to bake that into our interface.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Properties giving core/socket/node id values isn't too bad, but
> > > > > building a whole tree mirroring that heirarchy seems like asking for
> > > > > trouble.    
> > > > It's ok to have flat array of cpu-packages as well, only that
> > > > they should provide mgmt with information that would say where
> > > > CPU is could be plugged (meaning: node/socket/core/thread 
> > > > and/or some other properties, I guess it's target dependent thing)
> > > > so that user could select where CPU goes and do other actions
> > > > after plugging it, like pinning VCPU threads to a correct host
> > > > node/cpu.    
> > > 
> > > Right, that makes sense.  Again, it's basically about knowing where
> > > new cpu threads will end up before they're actually plugged in.
> > >   
> > > >     
> > > > >     
> > > > > > The similar but a bit more abstract approach was suggested
> > > > > > by David 
> > > > > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/qemu-ppc/2016-02/msg00000.html
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Benefit of dedicated CPU hotplug focused QMP command is that
> > > > > > it can be quite abstract to suite most targets and not depend
> > > > > > on how a target models CPUs internally and still provide
> > > > > > information needed for hotplugging a CPU object.
> > > > > > That way we can split efforts on how we model/refactor CPUs
> > > > > > internally and how mgmt would work with them using
> > > > > > -device/device_add.
> > > > > >       
> > > > >     
> > > >     
> > >   
> >   
>