Re: Percussion and tab clefs question

[Jacques Menu Muzhic]

Hello Joram & Torsten,

Fine, so both are right, thanks for the information.

The file I used is not musically relevant actually, since it’s only a unit test 
for clefs handling.

A nice w-e!

JM

> Le 23 juin 2018 à 12:22, Torsten Hämmerle <address@hidden> a écrit :
> 
> Hello Jacques,
> 
> Just a few additions to Joram's remarks...
> 
> 
> Noeck wrote
>> I guess the pitches are undefined in both the tab clef and the
>> percussion clef.
> 
> As for the percussion clef, MusicXML uses treble clef positioning and -
> obviously - so does Finale.
> In LilyPond, they are not intended resp. not defined for use in a regular
> Staff (see below).
> 
> 
> Noeck wrote
>> The percussion clef might have some pitched instruments, but there is no
>> universal definition (to my knowledge).
> 
> For exactly that reason, MusicXML provides <unpitched> and <midi-unpitched>
> for use with unpitched percussion and I don't think <pitch> does make too
> much sense for unpitched percussion instruments.
> 
> Example: Open and closed Hi Hat will have the same position within the stave
> and thus the same <unpitched> value, but different MIDI pitches
> <midi-unpitched> because they are different sounds in a MIDI drumkit.
> 
> 
> Noeck wrote
>> Finale seems to use positions like in a treble clef for both the tab and
>> the percussion clef. Which is understandable as it is the closest to a
>> default clef.
> 
> Yes. And LilyPond doen't have deliberate settings at all because these clefs
> don't make any sense (i.e. are undefined pitch-wise) in a Staff environment
> and incidentally behave like an alto clef:
> 
> 
> Noeck wrote
>> LilyPond seems to use an alto clef positions for both – which I don't
>> understand why this would be beneficial.
> 
> The TAB clef in LilyPond is intended for use in tablatures only, when using
> it in a Staff, c' will be positioned on the middle stave line (Y-offset 0),
> that incidentally happens to be the alto clef setting.
> So, in my opinion, it's sheer coincidence.
> 
> When looking at the LilyPond clef settings, there's always a 0 0 (Y-offset,
> octave) for these "non-pitched" clefs (tab is not really unpitched, but
> intended for tablature only):
> 
>    ("percussion" . ("clefs.percussion" 0 0))
>    ("varpercussion" . ("clefs.varpercussion" 0 0))
>    ("tab" . ("clefs.tab" 0 0))
> 
> 
> *Conclusion:* On the one hand, it's fine to check the correct output in
> different clefs, but as far as (unpitched) percussion clefs or tablature
> clefs in a non-tablature environment are concerned, they are not intended
> for this use (i.e. undefined) and may produce different results (or even
> errors) in different notation programs.
> 
> 
> All the best,
> Torsten
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
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> 
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