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Re: Notational conventions
From: |
David Kastrup |
Subject: |
Re: Notational conventions |
Date: |
Wed, 09 Nov 2016 14:47:53 +0100 |
User-agent: |
Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) |
Hans Åberg <address@hidden> writes:
>> On 9 Nov 2016, at 13:37, David Kastrup <address@hidden> wrote:
>>
>> Hans Åberg <address@hidden> writes:
>>
>>>> On 9 Nov 2016, at 10:45, David Kastrup <address@hidden> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The problem with appoggiature is that their timing is loose as the
>>>> transition to the main note is not supposed to be a rhythmical accent.
>>>> If you listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQseNJP_bzk in
>>>> comparison to most renditions, you'll find that I execute the
>>>> appoggiature on the long side, passing the "proper" moment (and yes,
>>>> I know that I have only executed the explicitly written ones in the
>>>> manuscript with "violine concertante" as I was too lazy to figure out a
>>>> strategy myself when the top voice is almost but not quite a solo voice
>>>> in a string quartet).
>>>
>>> You need an expert: one of my teachers could do Baroque improvisations.
>>>
>>> The long grace notes, I usually prefer toward the half written value,
>>> though some perform the full value.
>>
>> An appoggiatura does not feel like a "grace note" to me. Vaccai states
>> in his singing exercises that the appoggiatura should be _at least_ the
>> written value. The point being that the _main_ note pitch is
>> uninteresting and is what the note relaxes rather than resolves to.
>
> The execution varied considerably, according to Harvard Concise,
> giving an example of a 1/8 in small print connected to a 1/2-note: The
> French might execute it before the main note, otherwise as half the
> written value, the value, or longer, plus some.
>
>> Of course masking this change by executing it simultaneously with
>> _significant_ changes in other voices is a perfectly valid kind of
>> execution. But it becomes almost impossible to do this with an
>> articulation that differentiates the appoggiatura from a regular note:
>> when transcribing music played in that manner, no appoggiatura would
>> ever appear.
>>
>> Which is vaguely disturbing to me. So I might be overdoing my "musical
>> pronunciation" as a sign of me being unable to convey very subtle
>> differences in a sovereign manner.
>
> I prefer no overlap in the ornaments, that is, legato style.
Hm? I was not talking about overlap (and when referring to a singing
manual, overlap with the main note would be quite a feat). I was
talking about _when_ to change to the main note with an appoggiatura. I
don't know any school that would make a nonlegato execution of an
appoggiatura a serious option.
> Even in Balkan music, overlap does not seem necessary.
You completely lose me here but it's not like that would be anything new.
--
David Kastrup
- [Why you don't really want] irrational tuplets [nor CF approximations], (continued)
- [Why you don't really want] irrational tuplets [nor CF approximations], Alexander Kobel, 2016/11/08
- Re: [Why you don't really want] irrational tuplets [nor CF approximations], Hans Åberg, 2016/11/08
- Re: [Why you don't really want] irrational tuplets [nor CF approximations], Thomas Morley, 2016/11/08
- Notational conventions, Hans Åberg, 2016/11/08
- Re: Notational conventions, Thomas Morley, 2016/11/08
- Re: Notational conventions, Hans Åberg, 2016/11/09
- Re: Notational conventions, David Kastrup, 2016/11/09
- Re: Notational conventions, Hans Åberg, 2016/11/09
- Re: Notational conventions, David Kastrup, 2016/11/09
- Re: Notational conventions, Hans Åberg, 2016/11/09
- Re: Notational conventions,
David Kastrup <=
- Re: Notational conventions, Hans Åberg, 2016/11/09
- Re: Notational conventions, David Kastrup, 2016/11/09
- Re: Notational conventions, Hans Åberg, 2016/11/09
- Re: Notational conventions, David Kastrup, 2016/11/09
- Re: Notational conventions, Hans Åberg, 2016/11/09
- Re: Notational conventions, David Kastrup, 2016/11/09
- Re: Notational conventions, Hans Åberg, 2016/11/09