Re: Implementation of \tuplet allow both incorrect and correct musical expressions

[Ralph D. Jeffords]

Peter, My "strange" example of tuplets using neither "Math Rule" nor "Nearness Rule" will be clarified if  I show the context. Here is that context from a part of the piece I wrote for solo bassoon:

 

\version "2.18.2"
\language "english"
\score {
\relative c' {
\partial 4
\clef "bass"
\key af \major

 

 c,,8(  { \tuplet 5/2 { g'16 c ef g c) } }
 |
    
   ef4\fermata     
   \tuplet 3/2 { df8 ef df }
   \tuplet 3/2 { c df c }
   \afterGrace bf4 \startTrillSpan { a32 bf \stopTrillSpan }
 |

 

   af,8-.[ c'-.
   bf-. g,-.]
   f-.[ af'-.
   g-. ef,-.]
 |

 

   df8( { \tuplet 7/2 { f16 bf  df f  bf  df f~) } }     
   f4~\fermata     
   \tuplet 3/2 { f8 ef( f }
   \tuplet 3/2 { g16[ af g } f16 g])
 |

 

} %relative
\layout { }
\midi {  }
} %score

 

My point is that in this context,  the 5/2 and 7/2 tuplets seem more elegant  than if you followed the "Math Rule" using 5/4 and 7/4, and that the player would not be confused when playing the score.  These two tuplets are the only ones in this section and the triple beams (required by "Math Rule") look rather messy by comparison. Even messier is the "Nearness Rule" giving 7/8 for the septuplet with a quaduple beam.

 

In fact, a music jock college friend at the time (36 years ago) recopied my "chicken scratches" of the autograph and used precisely the 5/2 and 7/2 notation for the quintuplet and septuplet---I didn't even notice when I was engraving the LilyPond version from his hand-written score. It was only later that I realized that the 5/2 and 7/2 tuplets did not follow the "Math Rule."  Food for thought.

----- Original Message -----

From: Peter Bjuhr

To: Simon Albrecht ; Ralph D. Jeffords ; lilypond-user

Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 9:40 AM

Subject: Re: Implementation of \tuplet allow both incorrect and correct musical expressions

On 2015-03-26 10:53, Simon Albrecht wrote:

The essay
on writing readable tuplets was quite interesting.

From the context I assume you're referring to my post about tuplets on the LilyPond blog: http://lilypondblog.org/2014/09/how-to-write-readable-tuplets/. I'm really glad you found it interesting!

The documentation mentions nothing about the intricacies of using tuplets---why isn't there a link to this article from the section 2.1.7 of the Learning Manual where tuplets are first discussed?

Even before I read the essay I had some second thoughts that \tuplet 7/4 { c16 ... }  might be clearer to the player  if annotated as \tuplet 7/8 { c32 ... } since 7 is closer to 8 than to 4 (i.e., I anticipated the "Nearness Rule").

I also found  that certain arpeggios  which appeared in a bassoon composition of mine ( I just downloaded LilyPond about 10 days ago, knowing nothing about it before, and learned enough of the basics to engrave that composition) 

Welcome as a LilyPond user!

[The arpeggios] seem easier to read if the notes are nominal 16ths rather than following the "Mathematical Rule:"

{ c,,8( \tuplet 5/2 { g'16 c ef g c ) } }

{ df8( \tuplet 7/2 { f16 bf  df f  bf  df f~) } }

So definitely there is a need for flexibility in using tuplets.

My main point in the text is that the flexibility of LilyPond has to be used with care not to make the tuplets unnecessarily obscure.

Your example above seems strange to me. Compare this:

{ c,,8( \tuplet 5/2 { g'16 c ef g c ) } c8 d2 s8 }

{ df8( \tuplet 7/2 { f16 bf  df f  bf  df f~) } f8 d2 s8 }

with this:

{ c,,8( \tuplet 5/4 { g'16 c ef g c ) } c8 d2 }

{ df8( \tuplet 7/4 { f16 bf  df f  bf  df f~) } f8 d2 }

When placing five (5) and seven (7) 16ths over two (2) 16ths it seems to me that you end up with an excessive 8th compared to what one expects from reading the notation.

I am definitely impressed with LilyPond's capabilities and the input language (I was a heavy user of LaTeX in my life before retirement, so I am a fan of WYSIWYM tools).

Sincerely,
Ralph D. Jeffords

P.S. A bit about myself:  I was a Research Computer Scientist before I retired, but I'm also a bassoonist and even play the piano a bit (my mother was a piano teacher).

Best
Peter