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Re: point and click


From: David Kastrup
Subject: Re: point and click
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2013 14:04:03 +0200
User-agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux)

Janek Warchoł <address@hidden> writes:

> 2013/9/7 David Kastrup <address@hidden>:
>> Janek Warchoł <address@hidden> writes:
>>> I think that we should turn point and click off by default.  It only
>>> makes sense with smart editors like Frescobaldi, which should be able
>>> to turn this on when they need it.
>>
>> I very much disagree.  lilypond-invoke-editor alone supports emacs,
>> gvim, uedit32, nedit, gedit, jedit, syn and lilypad which can be started
>> from pretty much any PDF viewer and from HTML browsers.
>>
>> The mechanism does not require a "smart editor" at all.  It is enough to
>> have any old editor that has command line options for positioning inside
>> of a file.
>>
>> A working point-and-click is quite important for someone beginning to
>> work with LilyPond (part of the reason for working with LilyPad in the
>> first place), and it is particularly those who'll not easily know how or
>> _why_ to turn on a particular feature that is desirable for a specific
>> workflow.
>
> Ok, that'd be helpful indeed, but (correct me if i'm wrong) all the
> links in the pdf are absolute paths pointing to the original source
> file.  Which means that:
> - if i move my source file, the link doesn't work
> - if i don't have the source file, the link doesn't do anything useful
>
> So when someone sends me a pdf without the source, all links are
> useless.

And your point is?  When you print out the PDF, all links are useless as
well.  Many parts of the PDF are not useful for some uses of it.

> So, as i see it, the links are useful only for the person who produced
> the pdf.

Sure.  They point is that they _are_ useful.

> Since i believe that the best way to compile and work with LilyPond
> source files is by using a smart editor with pdf preview and point and
> click support, such an editor can enable point and click by itself.

Your beliefs do not come into play here.  It is not relevant what you
think people should be using if you were the king of the world.
Relevant is what we document, what we support, including the LilyPad
supported out of the box on various installations, and what is actually
being used.

> My point is:
> - if you don't compile the file yourself, the links are useless anyway
> - if you compile the file, you should use Frescobaldi or similar
> editor, which can turn point and click on as needed.

The links do no harm.  If at any point of time file size is a problem
for any given person, he can reduce it himself.

You propose making life tough for a majority of people just to save file
space for a preferred use modus of yourself.

And the actually silly aspect of this is that

a) you want everybody to use Frescobaldi for writing LilyPond files
b) you want Frescobaldi to turn on point-and-click by default

so actually the situation will be exactly the same as previously: every
file produced in the manner you think should be the only supported way
of working will contain point-and-click information.

-- 
David Kastrup



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