Re: chopin example

[Urs Liska]

Am 26.08.2013 15:30, schrieb David Kastrup:
> Urs Liska <address@hidden> writes:
>
> > Am 26.08.2013 13:45, schrieb Martin Tarenskeen:
> > > For example at some point in the score I have to combine two 3/4
> > > bars in the right hand with one 2/2 bar in the left hand. polymetric
> > > music from 1830!
> > BTW: Schubert had a manner of playing with 'weakening' metrics through
> > the use of accents.
> Bach does it even worse.  I remember hemioles in several choroi that
> were discoverable mostly because the lyrics changed metre (in the
> meaning of "stress pattern").
>
> I suppose that this kind of cue would mostly be lost on non-native
> singers.
If you disregard the discrepancy between Saxon and other German dialects 
Bach didn't have to bother with non-native singers ;-)
> > I haven't found references in the 'official' literature confirming
> > this, but I've come to be sufficiently sure about it to dare to come
> > up with an example like the attached ones.  Admittedly this is an
> > _extreme_ case but there are plenty of cases where he uses the
> > technique to e.g. write two 3/2 bars instead of three 2/2 ones.
> Overriding the composer with regard to metric choices may often be a bad
> idea since quite often there is a subtle ambiguity and balance between
> the different voices and their respective melodic highlights.
>
> A metre change might make a much more definite statement than intended
> by the composer.
Well, I'm not completely sure what you mean regarding my intentions, but 
of course my examples weren't meant to be published as an edition of 
that song but examples to illustrate the textual analysis.
In the non-polymetric examples the pedallings used to display 'virtual 
meter' are my additions while the accents are my reconstruction from the 
autograph - which heavily disagrees with the printed scores (that simply 
copy  the 'missing' articulations from the first four bars).

Of course - apart from being unthinkable in the 1820s  - Schubert (and 
Bach, and probably others as well) wouldn't have wanted to write such a 
hard modification like a meter change but rather used such strategies 
exactly for their ambiguity. But reading an accent as a 'weak' meter 
change is something that isn't obvious by itself, so some hints are 
always necessary.
In that context it may be interesting to know that Schubert could also 
write accents that span half a or a whole bar. Unfortunately this 
distinction is completely lost in print (the New Schubert Edition 
usually uses footnotes in extreme cases).

Urs