Re: font survey: which clef do you prefer?

[Janek Warchoł]

Hi all,

i'm impressed by the amount of feedback i receive!

2011/7/10 Reinhold Kainhofer <address@hidden>:
> [...] So, I prefer the upper loop of the original clef,
> but the vertical line of the third one...

2011/7/10 Dmytro O. Redchuk <address@hidden>:
> So, if I could (sorry, again) try, I would take "the third one" and make it
> higher and deeper.

I've modified my suggested clef (the third one from original comparison).
The shape of the vertical line remained almost the same, but the loop
is about halfway between current Lily clef and my previous suggestion.
 The bottom crook is also slightly bigger now.
I attach pdfs demonstrating my new version and current Lily version
for comparison.  If anyone hasn't done this already, i strongly
recomment alt-tab-comparing them (i.e. open them in two maximized
windows, both zoomed to 400% or so, and switch windows with alt-tab).

2011/7/10 Jan Nieuwenhuizen <address@hidden>:
> Werner LEMBERG writes:
>> Please don't forget that lilypond's clefs are not something which are
>> designed from nothing.  They are mostly based on good German
>> engravings!
>
> +1
>
> ... but by comparison to the high quality [German] engravings [from the
> 50's].
>
> The scary thing is that personal taste can easily be influenced by
> lesser [early computer based] publications that have appeared since the
> 70's.

I don't doubt that you've put a lot of effort in the treble clef, and
that there are high clefs used in high quality engravings.
I suppose that our current treble clef isn't a duplicate of any
specific clef, but rather a mix of several different clefs (and some
of your own touch).  I think that this style mixing is the cause of
the imperfectness that i'm trying to fix.

As an argument (not a definite one, of course) i'd like to show you
this comparison:
http://lilypond.googlecode.com/issues/attachment?aid=17520007002&name=comparison+with+engraved+clefs.png&token=d74ebe85a552acee340caf7dcd7d7d2d&inline=1
Notice that:
- all engraved clefs have smaller c (bottom crook width) than current Lily clef.
- all high clefs have nevertheless smaller top loop than current Lily
clef (because L - bottom of the loop - is higher).
- the first clef, which has the biggest loop (area-wise), has also the
biggest width (w) which compensates for that.
- virtually all high clefs have also bigger h (spiral height) than
current Lily clef.
Also, the thickness of the thick lines is bigger in engraved examples
- because of this even the highest clefs don't seem too airy (unlike
current Lily clef).

> You cannot go and start to mix and match styles -- I could imagine
> having lilypond output different styles [something gonville-based comes
> to mind], but please make sure to stay consistent.

I believe that my current proposal is consistent with our style.  How
do you like it?
Han-Wen, may i ask for your opinion, too? (for obvious reasons :) )

cheers,
Janek

clef-demo current Lily.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

clef-demo new proposal.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document