Re: Octave review

[Jaroslav Hajek]

On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Daniel J Sebald <address@hidden> wrote:
> Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:
>
>>> True, it's a touted Matlab feature, but as I see it Simulink provides no
>>> extra functionality to the core of Matlab and adds little to what makes
>>> the
>>> language as useful as it is.  Octave/Matlab's benefit is that of any
>>> computer language: efficient processing and analysis.  Simulink adds
>>> little
>>> to that.
>>
>>
>> There seem to be many who disagree with you and use Matlab almost
>> exclusively for Simulink. We also get more or less regular requests in
>> the help mailing list if Octave has anything like Simulink.
>
> I didn't say that.  I said Simulink adds little to efficiency and analysis.
>  It enshrouds Matlab with a layer of user interface that in some cases can
> be useful for a specific application.  I've not found Simulink too useful as
> far as my analytic pursuits.  (Note the reference I gave last time to
> Stephenson's "In the beginning... was the command line.")
>
>
>>> One other thing about the review is that it tends to vilify Mathworks
>>> near
>>> the end.
>>
>>
>> That's intentional. It's a review, it's subjective, it's my voice, and
>> I don't like the Mathworks. I don't approve of their business
>> practices, I don't think that it's ok to be evil as long as you're
>> making a profit, and I do not believe apologists who say, "you see, if
>> they didn't do all the evil things they do, they wouldn't be making
>> money."
>
> All the evil things they do may be more perception than reality.
>
>
>>> Rather, Octave puts a resource at the disposal of users
>>> who can't afford otherwise, i.e., one doesn't have to buy their way into
>>> a
>>> scientific research community.
>>
>>
>> I think jwe has been pretty clear in several instances that he doesn't
>> see Octave as charity for those who can't pay for Matlab. He
>> emphasises the freedom of the software, that it can be distributed and
>> analysed without restriction except that it's forbidden to forbid. He
>> also expects to receive code for the code he's made, and he frequently
>> invites users to contribute to the code. Not charity. He wants
>> something back: code, contribution, involvement.
>
> Hence the "bazaar-like" development that has been there since before
> transfer to Mercurial.
>
>
>> On a more personal note from myself, those who can't pay for Matlab
>> already aren't doing so, but use it anyways. Ask Jaroslav Hájek, ask
>> me, ask any user in the mailing list who isn't from the US or Western
>> Europe (and possibly a few other places), is software around them
>> copied with blithe disregard for copyright? Ask the Swedes and The
>> Pirate Bay:
>>
>>
>> http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4510366/Mathworks.Matlab.R2008b.UNIX.DVD.ISO-TBE
>>
>> I frequently see dwellers of the US or Western Europe acting as if
>> copyright infringement were impossible, or invisible, or immoral, but
>> it is the norm everywhere except in the US or Western Europe. It is
>> not always overt like with TPB, but it exists everywhere in the world,
>> to various degrees. It is also very widespread in the same countries
>> where these beliefs about copyright come from, but it is of course
>> much less overt, and much more socially stigmatised.
>
> I'm not disagreeing that that is the case; quite aware of it.  However, this
> point is a red herring as regards your original point.  Anyway, copyrights
> are a structured model of business.  These rules date back a long way and
> often were implemented to protect the intellectual property of small
> business owners.

Not in Czechia, for instance. Here, they basically date back roughly
to the Velvet Revolution or a while after. And they started to be
enforced primarily to protect the IP of western companies expanding
here, or equivalently, to hold back the small Czech businesses from
catching up too easily with the entering big players. I don't want to
speculate whether this was the reason, but this was the effect. I
think this was sort of Jordi's point. As a consequence, there's little
natural respect for copyright in our country, it's mostly enforced
respect.

> As a consequence, they hold for bigger companies as well.
>  One could make a fairly good argument that structured business law has been
> more productive than other models.  (Not that I always look down on
> anarchy.)
>
> Dan
>



-- 
RNDr. Jaroslav Hajek
computing expert
Aeronautical Research and Test Institute (VZLU)
Prague, Czech Republic
url: www.highegg.matfyz.cz