Re: Promoting the GNU Kind Communication Guidelines?

[Alex Griffin]

Adopting both actually does nothing for those who take issue with the CoC, 
since between the 2 documents the stricter one must take precedence in order to 
mean anything at all.

-- 
Alex Griffin

On Thu, Oct 25, 2018, at 9:43 PM, Gábor Boskovits wrote:
> Hello
> 
> George Clemmer <address@hidden> ezt írta (időpont: 2018. okt. 26., P, 1:04):
> >
> > Hello
> >
> > Ricardo Wurmus <address@hidden> writes:
> >
> > > Hello Mathieu,
> > >
> > >> Mathieu Lirzin <address@hidden> skribis:
> > >>
> > >>> Following the announcement made by RMS regarding the new GNU Kind
> > >>> Communication Guidelines (GKCG) [1], I would like to know if the Guix
> > >>> developpers in particular its maintainers would agree to adopt it in
> > >>> place of the current Code of Conduct (CoC)?
> > >>
> > >> Speaking for myself: no.  I think the GKCG fails to address important
> > >> issues, such as defining what’s acceptable and what’s not as well as
> > >> clear processes to address this.
> > >
> > > [Apologies for the delay; I’m currently traveling.]
> > >
> > > Adding to what Ludovic wrote, I also would not want to replace the
> > > current proven Contributor Covenant with the recently emerged GKCG.
> > > Using *both* of them would not be useful, I think, as I find our current
> > > CoC to be sufficient; using *only* the GKCG and dropping the existing
> > > CoC would be a mistake in my opinion, as our CoC describes a process
> > > which the GKCG does not.
> 
> I belive that if there are voices who would like to have them both, there is
> actually no problem with using both. The current CoC is in fact sufficient, 
> but
> if having the GKCG also makes people feel better I am not opposed to adopt it.
> 
> > >
> > > Committing to a process to deal with grievances is a very desirable
> > > feature of our current CoC that I don’t want to give up.  As one of the
> > > people who shares responsibility for dealing with incidents of
> > > harassment or misunderstandings, this helps me do a better job.
> > >
> > > Even so, I encourage people to continue to engage in fostering kind
> > > communication in the channels of the Guix project, something that this
> > > community by and large does very well.
> > >
> > >>> Adopting the GKCG instead of a CoC would help attracting people (like
> > >>> me) who agree to use a welcoming and respectful language which
> > >>> encourages everyone to contribute but are reluctant in contributing to
> > >>> any project following a CoC due to its punitive nature and the politics
> > >>> of its authors [2][3].
> > >
> > > To me the politics of the author(s) of the original or current version
> > > of the Contributor Covenant don’t play much of a role in prefering it as
> > > a practical guiding document for this community.  (I don’t know the
> > > author.)
> > >
> > > I think I see how it could be seen as “punitive”, but I don’t share this
> > > assessment.  We all want what’s best for the project and the people who
> > > currently work on or consider working on it — to me the emergence of the
> > > GKCG is more evidence that this is true.  I hope that seeing these
> > > similarities in intent more than the differences in implementation will
> > > allow you to overcome your feeling of reluctance to contribute to Guix
> > > (and other projects that have decided to adopt a CoC).
> >
> > The responses above seem consistent with why CoC mightq appeal to
> > maintainers. But as a Guix user and occasional contributor, I find GKCG
> > more welcoming and more useful. For me, RMS' rationale is compelling:
> >
> >     The idea of the GNU Kind Communication Guidelines is to start
> >     guiding people towards kinder communication at a point well before
> >     one would even think of saying, "You are breaking the rules."  The
> >     way we do this, rather than ordering people to be kind or else, is
> >     try to help people learn to make their communication more kind.
> >
> > It is really the either-or situation implied by the discussion above?
> >
> > What would be wrong with adding GKCG and keeping CoC?
> >
> 
> I think this can be done, I feel nothing wrong with it.
> 
> > - George
> >
> 
> It is also quite obvious what the maintainers feel missing from
> GKCG, so it also might be possible to improve on the current
> GKCG and make some of the features of CoC available, like:
> 1. Explicitly defining acceptable and not acceptable behaviour
> (maybe by providing a liked document for that for flexibility and
> easier adoptation)
> 2. Explicitly define a process to deal with issues
> (this can also be a linked doument)
> One way to do this easily would be to provide the current CoC as the
> linked document
> defining these. Later we could improve on this.
> WDYT?
> 
> Best regards,
> g_bor
>