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Re: [Gcl-devel] Re: Garnet?

From: C Y
Subject: Re: [Gcl-devel] Re: Garnet?
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:42:30 -0800 (PST)

--- "Thomas F. Burdick" <address@hidden> wrote:
> C Y address@hidden wrote:
> > The advantages this has over TCL/TK are that it is apparently
> > implimented in lisp itself, if I understand what it is correctly. 
> > I found it when I was investigating options for a Maxima gui.  It
> > looks to be too much work to be worthwhile, particularly since it 
> > doesn't currently run on Windows.  I was curious if anyone here
> > more about it, but I concur it appears mostly dead.  I doubt I'll
> > able to try building it anytime soon.
> I wouldn't call Garnet dead.  CMU isn't developing it anymore, but
> it's a pretty complete product (does anyone complain that Motif is
> stagnant?).  There is still a user base (I'm one of it).  There's
> just not much to do to it besides fight bit-rot, though.  Once its
> Motif-like look-and-feel starts looking old, it'll need to be updated
> to whatever the new modern look is.  But really, I think "stable" is
> a better way to characterize it than "dead".  And a Windows port
> be great :)

What lisp do you use it with?  I agree that it looks fairly complete,
as far as it goes, and we are going to give it a serious look, but
there are a couple things we want to do with it that I'm not sure it
can handle currently:

Formatted mathematical display.
Imbedded display from another program (such as an openplot or gnuplot
window being treated as a component of the interface, even though it's
a different program.)

As a user of Garnet, do you think it could do these things, maybe with
some work to add a feature or two?  

Also, it seems like it will be hard to debug if something doesn't work.
A couple of us have tried working with it in Clisp, and have run into a
few personality quirks already.  I'll describe one of them for the list
in case anyone knows what is going on here - we will probably have to
deal with a lot of this kind of stuff before garnet works on gcl. 
Here's what I did (remember this is clisp, not gcl yet)

(load "garnet-loader.lisp")
(load Garnet-Demos-Loader)

and then I tried to run the 3D demo.  The result was this:

*** - FUNCALL: argument (LAMBDA NIL (GVL :OBJ-OVER)) is not a function.
To get a function in the current environment, write (FUNCTION ...).
To get a function in the global environment, write (COERCE '...
1. Break [6]>

Does anyone know what's going on here? 

One last point.  There appear to be two ways to make garnet work on
Windows - impliment native calls to Windows graphic elements, or use
libw11 from sourceforge.  Does anyone have insights on this - how hard
it would be, what pieces would be needed, etc.?  (Also if we do get it
working on Windows, we would need to impliment a Windows look rather
than the Motif look.)

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