[fluid-dev] Re : Re: Help about EWI behavior - Soundfonts generator

[CERESA Jean-Jacques ENAC/ENAC]

Hi,  

 

Louis 1> We need to produce a custom soundfont for breath data.

This is the best that any MIDI breath controler player can do (EVI,EWI..). I am not a EWI player (guitar,piano only), but sharing ideas is a great pleasure.

I hope that others EWI players will read your mail !.

 

Louis 2>  cannot get a usable MIDI note .....I suggest we hardcode the velocity to 50%....

  a)Assuming Initial_attenuation at 0 (no attenuation on volume adrs output),   fixed velocity, fixed volume and breath mapped to CC _expression_

  If you set 50 % fixed velocity, you will get 50% sound level when breath reach 100% ( assuming CC Volume fixed at 100%).

  With this setting: for a breath from 0 to 100%, you will get a sound level from 0 to 50%

  Now, if volume is set to 50%, for a breath from 0 to 100%, you will get a sound level from 0 to 25% ! (a low level )

  Be aware that that the sound level will be never higher than the velocity value or volume value.

  Remember the relation: Note level = Voice0 level + Voice1 level + ....(One or more voice described in soundfont)

  voice0 level = adrsOut0  x InitialAttenuation0 x VelocityFixed x Breath x Volume

  voice1 level = adrsOut1  x InitialAttenuation1 x VelocityFixed x Breath x Volume

  Notes:
     Velocity, Breath and volume are common factor for all voices.     But InitialAttenuation is a private factor for this voice, so voices level may be distinct if needed.

     PeakLevel at adsrOut is a common factor for all voices. Of course ADSR shape may be private for this voice.

 

  b)Warning. if the soundfont have a custom modulator of the same name than the default modulator this default modulator will be replaced by the custom one!

 

Louis 3> We need to get fluidsynth accurately adjust the amplitude to track the breath data......

  This is the case,  as far  Breath can be a CC source modulator, with "Intial Attenuation" generator as the destination of this modulator.(i.e as in (a)  ).

  Notes:

     Be aware that the modulator curve shape at input (Breath) is actually concave, but you can change it to linear or other shape, but you cannot

     define your own shape. I found, this is a limitation in Soundfonts 2.0 from the start (1996). I'am supprised that there is no other SF versions to integrate this

     important possibility.

 

Louis 4>Overlapping or Linked notes or Legato notes.......could fluidsynth play note B not from the beginning but as if note ............

   a)Actally FluidSynth (FS) have no monophic mode so ADSR generator are always triggered the same way on consecutives notes n1,n2 which is not convenient for monophonic

      instrument when n1 is the first note of a begining phrase played legato with next ones (n2,n3..). I think that with additional support, FS could do the job, but this request careful

     design. I am  not a FS maintainer but, i am actually working to write a document with specifications and making a proposal. This is the reason of the initial mail of this discussion.

   b)A true monophonic mode would allow note n1 with ADSR and note n2 with no peak (i.e with attack that reach the sustain level of previous note n1, with or without

      retriggering attack). In others word only the first note will have a peak in ADSR but not the next ones (when played legato). This kind of monophonic mode seem to be necessary

      for MIDI polyphonic controler (i.e keyboard).

   c)For MIDI monophonic controler (EVI,EWI) we remark that both, this monohonic mode and the volume ADSR generator presence assist the player (adding artificial tonging ) when

     playing the first note n1. This "artificial tonging" is added to the "player tonging". But what happens if the player want to play the first note n1 without tonging ?. In this case the note

     will sound with unwanted "artificial tonging". Of course the player can correct with a low breath to diminish this "artificial tonging".
     c1) Is this unwanted "artificial tonging"  an inconvenient ?

     c2) When the player want to get a "tonging sound", is this added "artificial tonging" benefic ?
     c3) I wonder if there is case where the player prefer no added ADSR, being himself a human ADSR generator ?

          Notes: It is possible to design a sound with no ADSR effect. To do that the sound designer must set a flat shape (i.e a squared shape).

 

Louis>OK just to let know I will be away on business next week for three days.

          I have had a further play with the ewi and fluidsynth......I get best results setting up the ewi up to used a fixed velocity of 127 and then on the ewi map the breath input to midi _expression_.

Louis, after 3 days business>At the moment when I try connect the EWI to fluidsynth using a fixed velocity and map the breath sensor to MIDI _expression_ (using the EWI) the outputs sound

                                           dead. I am not sure what is wrong.

D'ont forget, both  "Fixed velocity" and CC volume > 0  ?

 

jjc

 

Le 06/05/15, "Louis B." <address@hidden> a écrit :

Hi jjc,

Thanks for the reply, I'll see I can summarise the situation from my point off view.

1. We need to produce a custom soundfont for breath data. I'll have a go at producing one using my live flute playing and share the result. Please share any soundfonts you create or modify. However it would be good if we could have an easy way to reuse existing woodwind soundfonts.
2. I cannot get a usable MIDI note on velocity out of the EWI, this is because it is impossible tell how loudly I am going to playing a note just from the very start of my blowing.  I suggest we hardcode the velocity to 50% or 64 and ignore the EWI midi note on velocity output. (not max velocity as that often is a hard over blown sample)
3. We need to get fluidsynth accurately adjust the amplitude to track the breath data. Somehow we want to magically extract a breath profile from the soundfont sample and compare that to the players midi breath stream and then adjust the output according to the difference between the two profiles. 
   
4. Overlapping or Linked notes or Legato notes. There is a distinction between tonged notes and legato notes in that the later does not have any "attack" part of the note. I don't know if it is possible to switch to another note skipping the attack and decay section (which may contain the tonging sound) and go straight into the sustain part of the note. So for example if the musician plays note 'A' for one second and then plays note 'B' legato (without tonging), could fluidsynth play note B not from the beginning but as if note B had already been playing for one second. The EWI output always has the next note on BEFORE the old note off for legato notes so making the notes overlap.

I'll let you know how I get on with my custom soundfont. 

At the moment when I try connect the EWI to fluidsynth using a fixed velocity and map the breath sensor to MIDI _expression_ (using the EWI) the outputs sound dead. I am not sure what is wrong.

Louis.