Re: ibuffer problem with pop-up-frames non-nil

[Stefan Monnier]

>     I think it makes sense: frames that are invisible are similar
>     to frames on other displays in the sense that no amount of
>     `display-buffer' (or pop-to-buffer) will be sufficient to
>     display them.

> Just because some function (e.g. `display-buffer') treats two things
> similarly does not mean they should be treated equally everywhere (or
> considered equal). IOW, `display-buffer' does not display an invisible
> frame - so what?

> Besides, why shouldn't `display-buffer' show an invisible frame? It should,
> if the FRAME arg is `t' (i.e. this is a bug, IMO). The same argument for
> `get-buffer-window' applies to `display-buffer'.

Oops: I never noticed the `frame' arg to display-buffer.

> An invisible frame is simply that (according to its current description).
> How (and whether) programmers use them is up to them.  Nothing should be
> assumed about those uses - unless we're going to stipulate (i.e. both
> require and document) that invisible frames have this exceptional behavior.

Something has to be assumed: should such frames be made visible by the 99%
of the code that just uses display-buffer or pop-to-buffer without passing
any `frame' argument?

The correct answer depends on the underlying reason why you've made the
frame invisible.  Most of the current code assumes that the reason why
you've made it invisible is because you really don't want to see it, so it
should only be made visible by some specific operation, and not just by
display-buffer.

If you made it invisible just because you currently don't want it to clutter
your screen but you'd like it to pop right back whenever it's needed, then
you're better off iconifying rather than making your frame invisible.

It seems what you want is somewhere between invisible and iconified.

> I used to use invisible frames all the time, to avoid deleting and
> recreating frames, back when the frame-creation process was slow (at least
> on my machine & OS),

It's still slow here (Athlon64 2GB GNU/Linux), so I use iconification.
I also avoid delete&recreate because it loses the size&placement info.


        Stefan