Re: [O] Citation syntax: a revised proposal

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Richard Lawrence <address@hidden> wrote:

Hi Andreas,

Andreas Leha <address@hidden> writes:

> I have been following this thread from (quite) some distance as I am
> very interested in more general citation support from orgmode. Please
> allow some basic questions:
>
> 1. For the LaTeX user
> This change means that the LaTeX user can use org syntax for citations
> rather than bare LaTeX (or links of some sort)?
>
> And this org syntax could then (I guess is the future) be extended with
> additional link-like functionality (maybe similar to org-ref)?

Yes, exactly.

> 2. The non-LaTeX exports
> These are all treated the same and will contain just text, that is
> produced to mimic LaTeX's output to some extent?

Well, that depends on what you mean by `just' text. Citations can still
contain or be wrapped in markup that is specific to the output format,
like span tags or anchor tags in HTML.

> I think I read some question about e.g. having zotero handling the
> citations in the odt export. Are there plans for such thing?

Maybe. As far as I know, no one has done any work on Zotero integration
yet. But Vaidheeswaran did some work to make JabRef (a different
reference database) handle citations in ODT export.

> 3. The database
> As I understand the database currently is either bibtex or org?

Yes.

> But that list could in principle be extended to zotero ... ?

Yes, in principle. Any database that can export to bibtex format is
supported to some degree, if we support that format. Whether we want to
integrate with any particular reference database more tightly than that
hasn't really been discussed, as far as I'm aware. I don't have a good
sense of what other software Org users rely on for this purpose.

Just a note about Zotero: I think for most of us, the reason to export into ODT and/or DOC is to circulate a paper either for review or collaboration. Either case will likely involve some revision to citations, which would ideally be handled through Zotero. for this to work properly, we would want to export a full Zotero citation. To do that, we would likely need to speak directly to Zotero iteself. Here is a snippet of xml from a Zotero-generated citation in an odt document:
--------------
      <text:p text:style-name="P1">Here is a cite.
      <text:note text:id="ftn0" text:note-class="footnote">
        <text:note-citation>1
        </text:note-citation>
        <text:note-body>
          <text:p text:style-name="Footnote">
            <text:reference-mark-start text:name="ZOTERO_ITEM CSL_CITATION {"citationID":"ECYx4ePh","properties":{"formattedCitation":"{\\rtf Lea Schick, \\uc0\\u8220{}Bodies, Embodiment and Ubiquitous Computing\\uc0\\u8221{} 21, no. 1 (March 1, 2010): 63\\uc0\\u8211{}69, http://resolver.scholarsportal.info/resolve/14626268/v21i0001/63_beauc.xml.}","plainCitation":"Lea Schick, “Bodies, Embodiment and Ubiquitous Computing” 21, no. 1 (March 1, 2010): 63–69, http://resolver.scholarsportal.info/resolve/14626268/v21i0001/63_beauc.xml."},"citationItems":[{"id":5262,"uris":["http://zotero.org/users/20/items/AJGK5FDE"],"uri":["http://zotero.org/users/20/items/AJGK5FDE"],"itemData":{"id":5262,"type":"article-journal","title":"Bodies, embodiment and ubiquitous computing","page":"63-69","volume":"21","issue":"1","URL":"http://resolver.scholarsportal.info/resolve/14626268/v21i0001/63_beauc.xml","ISSN":"14626268","author":[{"family":"Schick","given":"Lea"}],"issued":{"date-parts":[["2010",3,1]]}}}],"schema":"https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/raw/master/csl-citation.json"} RNDXQmSceXdkV"/>
            <text:span text:style-name="T1">Lea Schick, “Bodies, Embodiment and Ubiquitous Computing” 21, no. 1 (March 1, 2010): 63–69, http://resolver.scholarsportal.info/resolve/14626268/v21i0001/63_beauc.xml.
            </text:span>
            <text:reference-mark-end text:name="ZOTERO_ITEM CSL_CITATION {"citationID":"ECYx4ePh","properties":{"formattedCitation":"{\\rtf Lea Schick, \\uc0\\u8220{}Bodies, Embodiment and Ubiquitous Computing\\uc0\\u8221{} 21, no. 1 (March 1, 2010): 63\\uc0\\u8211{}69, http://resolver.scholarsportal.info/resolve/14626268/v21i0001/63_beauc.xml.}","plainCitation":"Lea Schick, “Bodies, Embodiment and Ubiquitous Computing” 21, no. 1 (March 1, 2010): 63–69, http://resolver.scholarsportal.info/resolve/14626268/v21i0001/63_beauc.xml."},"citationItems":[{"id":5262,"uris":["http://zotero.org/users/20/items/AJGK5FDE"],"uri":["http://zotero.org/users/20/items/AJGK5FDE"],"itemData":{"id":5262,"type":"article-journal","title":"Bodies, embodiment and ubiquitous computing","page":"63-69","volume":"21","issue":"1","URL":"http://resolver.scholarsportal.info/resolve/14626268/v21i0001/63_beauc.xml","ISSN":"14626268","author":[{"family":"Schick","given":"Lea"}],"issued":{"date-parts":[["2010",3,1]]}}}],"schema":"https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/raw/master/csl-citation.json"} RNDXQmSceXdkV"/>
          </text:p>
        </text:note-body>
      </text:note>
      </text:p>
-------------------

Among other pieces of data, it contains a reference to a zotero URL which i don't think org-citeproc will know about. Can you describe what would be necessary to get text like this into an ODT, using ythe code you've been working on? THis conversation has gone a bit beyond my competence/comfort level, but I would be interested i nhelping a bit as soon as our semester is over here (just a couple of weeks left).

Thanks,

Matt

> And any other database X (zotero ...) would need translations X ->
> bibtex to make the LaTeX export work with it as well?

Not necessarily. Obviously, if you want to have bibtex/biblatex do the
processing of the citations and bibliography in the document, that is
required. But there is another approach, which is the one that Pandoc
takes: directly rendering citations and bibliography into the output
.tex file. If you're not relying on bibtex/biblatex to do the
rendering, you don't need to have the database in its format.

The org-citeproc tool I've been working on supports reading databases in
any of these formats (via pandoc-citeproc):

Format File extension
------------ --------------
MODS .mods
BibLaTeX .bib
BibTeX .bibtex
RIS .ris
EndNote .enl
EndNote XML .xml
ISI .wos
MEDLINE .medline
Copac .copac
JSON citeproc .json

From:	Matt Price
Subject:	Re: [O] Citation syntax: a revised proposal
Date:	Tue, 17 Mar 2015 21:12:06 -0400