Re: [O] [RFC] [PATCH] [babel] read description lists as lists of lists

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Aaron Ecay <address@hidden> writes:

> Isn’t the org-element format also easy to work on?  It requires a bit
> more than just car and cdr, but it’s well documented and used in many
> places across the code base (= cognitive burden to use is lower).  It’s
> also easy to produce in the sense that org-element.el already exists for
> independent reasons; we just have to use it.

It is not as easy to produce ex nihilo, i.e., without any Org syntax
under point. But, really, I do not mind if both radio lists and Babel
move to this internal syntax. It will require much more work, though.

Also, it doesn't mean we can remove or replace `org-list-parse-list' and
`org-list-to-generic'.

> Radio lists is a feature, org-list-to-generic is an implementation.  We
> can change the implementation without changing the user-visible aspects
> of the feature.  IOW, nothing about the user-facing functionality of
> org-list-to-generic requires it to accept a particular type of argument
> (as long as that arg is some representation or other of a list).

I agree.

> One approach would be to detect when it’s called from a non-org-mode
> buffer, and copy the text into a temporary org-mode buffer for parsing.
> Then org-element would be available.

Of course, if the internal representation is changed to Elements', that
is probably the way to go.

> IDK.  You’re probably in a better position to know that than I am.  There’s
> only one message even mentioning them (very tangentially) in my 2-ish years
> of messages from the list: <http://mid.gmane.org/address@hidden>.
> I’m not advocating their removal or deprecation, but they certainly seem
> like the tail and not the dog when considering what parts of org ought to
> wag what others.

I think you are missing my point.

Again, I'm fine with any improvement needed for Babel, but other, even
remotely, related parts should be moved along. This is about
consistency. I certainly don't want to see various parts of Org drift
away. Or, to put it differently: mind the tail, do not act as if the dog
had none.

> Why?  Babel’s representation is for babel.

Which I strongly frown upon.

> org-list-parse-list/-to-generic’s is for radio lists (although as I’ve
> said this connection seems accidental rather than essential).  Babel
> calls org-list-parse-list, but I don’t see why it should be forbidden
> from doing more processing on the result before passing it along
> (indeed, it already does some processing to remove the list type
> indicators, remove nested structure, etc.).

It is best to use as much common ground as possible. We should strive to
decrease need for such processing, not the other way.

As I already stated in my first answer, in the long run, it is the only
sane way to proceed. I agree it is less work to simply tweak Babel right
now and ignore the whole Org ecosystem, but it does no good to Org as
a whole.

> I dunno if I’d call my proposal an “internal plain list representation,”
> but rather “babel’s interpretation of plain lists.”

See above.

> Ordered and unordered lists are lists of strings (exactly as now).
> Description lists are lists of 2-element lists, each of the form
> (“TERM” “DESCRIPTION”) (unlike now, when they are lists of strings of
> the form “TERM :: DESCRIPTION”).
>
> It might be nice to handle nested lists somehow, if a sensible design
> can be created, but it looks like babel just discards them currently.
> So I propose to leave this unchanged, for the present at least:

`org-list-parse-list' handles nested lists just fine. Another advantage
of not re-inventing the wheel in every part of Org.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou                                                0x80A93738