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Re: [O] org-plus-contrib: Invalid function: org-no-popups
From: |
Bastien |
Subject: |
Re: [O] org-plus-contrib: Invalid function: org-no-popups |
Date: |
Sat, 26 Jan 2013 11:45:24 +0100 |
User-agent: |
Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) |
Hi Achim,
Achim Gratz <address@hidden> writes:
> My reading comprehension may be at an all-time low, but this is what you
> wrote in another thread:
>
>>>> This [removing Org from ELPA -ed] is using Org users as hostages, I
>>>> don't want to do this.
>
>> I think this is an option.
>
> Hm… I'm obviously missing some piece.
Yes :) This is were misunderstanding started:
,----
| > I've to admit that I've had that thought too, but it seems that doing
| > this would perhaps even lower the attention that Emacs' maintainers give
| > to that problem.
|
| This is using Org users as hostages, I don't want to do this.
`----
What I meant is this: "Using the fact that Org/ELPA users suffer from
a bug in package.el in hope that this will make Emacs maintainers fix
the package.el bug is using Org/ELPA users as hostages." (Obviously
my "this" where not equivalent to your "that" in the passage quoted
above.)
>> How can you make sure that Org-mode has not been used before people
>> want to install an updated version through GNU/Org ELPA?
>
> That's what the patch does that you didn't like.
I don't like it for at least these reasons:
- it introduces an advice in the code -- we should work toward
removing them, not adding them.
- it advices `require', which is a very core function in Emacs.
This is completely hackish.
>> I can't think of any good way.
>>
>> Until someone have an idea about this, I'm very serious about removing
>> the possibility of installing Org through ELPA. But as I said I won't
>> do this before getting a sense of what the users use and expect.
>
> There are exactly two possibilities to get into this situation:
>
> The first is using Org anything before opening the package manager. I
> think it should be possible to educate users that it's better t use a
> fresh Emacs instance for updating or installing packages until this has
> been fixed in package manager.
This is like telling Windows users to reboot their system so that it
can works correctly (remember the old days?). It feels wrong. And I
doubt we can educate the users -- there are many of them, and many
don't have the time to tell they have a problem.
> The second are things like starter-kit. I'm thinking that it should be
> the responsibility of such software to load and unload Org if they
> really need to use it before activating packages and ask for support
> from Emacs devs in how to do this properly. Package manager is a first
> class citizen of Emacs by now which means any add-on has to cope with
> its existence. It's interesting to see that the bugs seem to get
> chalked up to the packages that are in ELPA rather than the mechanisms
> that install them (or prevent proper initialization of Emacs) and it
> kind of seems to fly under the radar for this reason even though it
> seems to affect many users and has had for quite some time already.
I'm not sure what solution you suggest here.
In general, I think the benefit of having several ELPA distributions
of Org is not worth the trouble of dealing with installation issues.
--
Bastien
- [O] org-plus-contrib: Invalid function: org-no-popups, Moritz Ulrich, 2013/01/23
- Re: [O] org-plus-contrib: Invalid function: org-no-popups, Bastien, 2013/01/24
- Re: [O] org-plus-contrib: Invalid function: org-no-popups, Achim Gratz, 2013/01/24
- Re: [O] org-plus-contrib: Invalid function: org-no-popups, Bastien, 2013/01/24
- Re: [O] org-plus-contrib: Invalid function: org-no-popups, Achim Gratz, 2013/01/25
- Re: [O] org-plus-contrib: Invalid function: org-no-popups, Bastien, 2013/01/25
- Re: [O] org-plus-contrib: Invalid function: org-no-popups, Bastien, 2013/01/25
- Re: [O] org-plus-contrib: Invalid function: org-no-popups, Achim Gratz, 2013/01/25
- Re: [O] org-plus-contrib: Invalid function: org-no-popups,
Bastien <=
- Re: [O] org-plus-contrib: Invalid function: org-no-popups, Achim Gratz, 2013/01/26
- Re: [O] org-plus-contrib: Invalid function: org-no-popups, Bastien, 2013/01/26