Re: text-quoting-style

[Alan Mackenzie]

Hello, Stefan.

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 09:30:53PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > A user should have control over the handling of curly quotes in her
> > Emacs.

> For starters, I reject this statement, because it is much too broad.
> And since enough add-advice can take care of it already, there's no need
> for any config var just to satisfy this theoretical need.

> IOW, please be a lot more concrete.

I DO NOT WANT CURLY QUOTES IN MY EMACS!!!!!

How much more concrete can I get?

Are you trying to get me to swear?  How many times are you going to keep
asking the same question, snipping my answer, then asking me again?

I'm not interested in having people tell me how stupid I am for not
wanting curly quotes, I'm not interested in workarounds to work around
them, I simply don't want them on my Emacs.  An Emacs which forces them
on me is one I will not upgrade to.

> > The current and only mechanism for controlling these curly quotes is
> > text-quoting-style.

> "Controlling these curly quotes" is very vague.

OK.  Maybe you could suggest a less vague formulation.  You know what
text-quoting-style does, so why the complaint about "controlling these
curly quotes"?

> > when one needs a locale with more than ASCII, yet doesn't want curly
> > quotes,

> Where exactly does this hypothetical user not want curly quotes?
> And why?  What is/are the concrete problems these characters cause?

That hypothetical user is me.  And N. Jackson.  And Drew.  And RMS.  And
likely a lot of people who use Linux virtual terminals, or any of myriad
other systems which aren't X Windows.  And lots of X Windows users, too.
The place where we don't want curly quotes is Emacs.

These characters don't display properly on a typical LVT, you can't type
curly quotes properly on any standard keyboard layout.  There are
workarounds, sure, but I'm not interested in workarounds.  I want an
sleek efficient editing environment, and one where I have to stop and
think every time I come to a quote character, then go through the
rigmarole of C-x 8 whatever, isn't in that category.

It's a bit like asking what concrete problems transient-mark-mode
causes.  Some people just DO NOT WANT IT.  FULL STOP.

> E.g. text-quoting-style doesn't prevent the existence of curly quotes in
> Emacs, so for some interpretation of the above it's not sufficient.
> And for other interpretations the problem could be solved some other way.

Maybe it's sufficient, and if not, maybe it can be made sufficient.

But text-quoting-style is needed, otherwise we're just telling people
like me, like N. Jackson, like Drew, and like RMS that they can go and
jump in a lake.  And text-quoting-style MUST be customisable, so that
people can easily find it.

What is the thinking behind the suggestion that text-quoting-style not
be customisable?

And what do you mean by "could be solved some other way"?  When it comes
to disabling an unwanted feature, what other way is there but a
customisation variable or equivalent like M-x disable-curly-quotes?

>         Stefan

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).