Re: Key bindings proposal

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 10:57, Uday S Reddy <address@hidden> wrote:

> Yes, sure.  But, I think you are joining in in a subthread where
> Yidong has been pushing the view that treating the windows key as meta
> is unreasonable.

No, he doesn't. He says that making that at the Emacs level is
unreasonable. And I think that making this the default, or implying
that it's the only sane behavior for Windows users, or necessary
somehow, is unreasonable.

> On the other hand, the wikipedia page on the windows key says that it is 
> *freqently* done.

On non-Windows environments. So what?

> We have been through this before.  The current Emacs provision is
> sub-optimal for normal users like me, and it is unworkable for
> sticky-keys uses like Lennart.

Please, reread my e-mail. I already know that. Making Windows to be
meta is much more subotimal to me.

> Well, those of us that depend on commercial products develop antennae
> that can sense the difference between a marketing gimmick and a truly
> engineered feature.

Please! What kind of argument is that? Some appeal to authority?

> The Microsoft-branded windows keys (for which the
> keyboard manufacturers have to pay a royalty to Microsoft!) seem to
> fall in the former camp.  So, the more we can violate Microsoft's
> designs, the better we feel.

Talk for yourself. I don't mind what company's logo is on the key,
just that it is useful to me.

> By arguing for using the windows key the Microsoft way, you are
> unwittingly championing the Microsoft gimmicry.

Even worse: by using Microsoft products I'm doing it too. As you do,
if you're using Windows.

> Is it really?  The majority of the functions that have been put on the
> windows key can already be obtained by other means.

"The majority" != "all".

And, C+Esc is much less convenient for me. I've never used any C+Esc
shortcut because I find them hard to type, while W+key are quite
natural.

> None of
> them seems important enough to give up good keyboard access to Emacs's
> own menus.

I'm glad to know you know what's important for all Windows users.

> For the seasoned Emacs users, something like 90% of our work is done
> inside Emacs and only around 10% in Windows.

I confess I've been using Emacs daily only for thirteen years, so I'm
not seasoned enough. But I certainly don't spend 90% of my time inside
Emacs.

> So, it makes sense for
> us to put as many resources as possible at Emacs's disposal rather
> than Windows.  I am afraid the logic is on Lennart's side.

Only if you define logic as "everyone needs the exact same things that
Lennart and me need, or they are not *really* Windows users".

> For better or worse, Microsoft has ended up providing us with a good
> pair of modifier keys.  Now, let us put them to good use!

I already do.

    Juanma