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Re: Plans for ahead


From: Gregory Casamento
Subject: Re: Plans for ahead
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2015 15:20:17 -0500

James,

On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 2:40 PM, James Carthew <jcarthew@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm going to weigh in here in the UI discussions. I come from a mainly user
> background. A couple observations. Yes gnustep is a bit ugly, but that's not
> really my biggest concern. I have been trying to run GNUStep as a desktop
> environment mostly to replace OSX on Linux. It is not a viable replacement
> at this time. My reasons are this: I can only open a single terminal tab per
> terminal window (this is causing my screens to get cluttered even though I
> have huge screen real estate 2.5k/4k monitors). Lack of a web browser (if I
> run any third party browser my Apple style horizontal menu disappears. This
> is extremely annoying, Mantella will not compile with modern firefox and
> wrapping a browser is beyond my programming capabilities). Lack of tools to
> configure simple desktop settings such as xrandr, pulseaudio and
> network-manager (gnustep needs arandr ported to it, preferably as a
> SystemPreferences.app module) These are all things which destroy the user
> experience for me. The theme isn't that important to me, I want GNUStep
> because I can use it to run as Apple style, Windows style or Next style,
> throw an Amiga Style, and a tablet style in and you've covered all of the
> deskop UI styles most people want to run these days.

I think you have some great observations here.   A browser is
something I've been thinking about doing for a very long time.

> On 29 November 2015 at 18:10, Gregory Casamento <greg.casamento@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Riccardo,
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 9:16 AM, Riccardo Mottola
>> <riccardo.mottola@libero.it> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > Gregory Casamento wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I absolutely want "our" menus, they are distinctive and useful and if
>> >>> I
>> >>> were
>> >>> >to make a reference distribution, I'd want to retain that.
>> >>
>> >> They are OLD.   More important than their usefulness is what they
>> >> invoke and that is they make people think that we are NeXTSTEP and
>> >> OPENSTEP only.  Like it or not our old look is part of our problem.
>> >> I'm sorry you don't like this fact, but it is based on tons of first
>> >> hand observation over the last ten years.
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm sorry you mix look and with interface design. Facts and factoids.
>>
>> Which are factoids?  All of the observations from people at the
>> events, on twitter, etc... are based on personal experience.   I hear
>> it every day.  Not factoids... these are widely held opinions.  I'm
>> sorry you don't want to believe it.
>>
>> > Actually, our menus are NEW, they are newer than in-window menus and
>> > one-menu-bar on the top which came from Mac and Motif/OS2/Windows. They
>> > have
>> > close parents and predecessors (e.g. SGI menus, Amiga menus) but NeXT
>> > made
>> > them consistent.
>>
>> They are from 1985.  Sorry, they evoke images of the past.
>>
>> > The interaction with our menus makes NeXT & GNUstep distinctive and as
>> > trying to port applications back and forth it allows for a unique
>> > interaction. It allows, for example to have very smooth document based
>> > applications which are impossible to achieve (as still the latest office
>> > suite of a big software company proves) with in-window menus.
>> > It offers the same functionality as a top menu bar, but is more flexible
>> > and
>> > works well with big screens or multiple-screens. We do not need to
>> > invent
>> > things like "tearable menus" and even "palettes" are not strictly
>> > necessary.
>>
>> Distinctive, perhaps.   Perhaps there is a way we could make them more
>> modern and still keep them next like.  I am not advocating getting rid
>> of them or going for in-window or menu-bar menus (on the top of the
>> screen)... what I'm suggesting is something like what was originally
>> proposed by Jesse a few years ago in the attached file.
>>
>> > Thus, playing the same song is of no good for anybody.
>>
>> I would very much like to see our interface changed to something
>> everyone can be in love with.   This is only good for the project.
>> Our out of the box experience with users SUCKS ROCKS and this is
>> something we need to think about.
>>
>> > Riccardo
>>
>> GC
>> --
>> Gregory Casamento
>> GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant
>> http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
>> http://ind.ie/phoenix/
>>
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>
>
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-- 
Gregory Casamento
GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant
http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
http://ind.ie/phoenix/



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