Re: distribution and packaging (Was: Re: Themes (again))

[Riccardo Mottola]

Hi,

Liam Proven wrote:
> On 28 September 2013 13:27, Riccardo Mottola <riccardo.mottola@libero.it> wrote:
> > do you mean source tarballs? those we have.. .and building is up to you.
> > Except perhaps the core system which requires tweaking, all the rest is a
> > matter of configure && make install or even just make install.
> To be honest, I have not built anything much from source in about
> 10-15 years now. That reminds me of the bad old days of the mid-1990s
> when I started experimenting with Linux.
As a developer, I need to test my own stuff, also, building gnustep is 
dam simple. Anyway, it is a choice. As a user, your choice is correct, 
if all parts of the chain from "upstream" down to "packages" would work 
as they should.
> > This is very strange. I use GWorkspace daily. Which version are you using? I
> > hope not the debian packages: they are so old that it is a shame (3 releases
> > behind), the bug fixed since that release is enormous.
> Yes, that is what I have been using - the GNUstep tools included in
> Ubuntu/Debian. I had been experimenting with these for a year or so
> before going looking for more info and finding this list.
>
> There is almost nothing useful or current on gnustep.org - it has
> barely changed in a decade.
That's one of those absurd allegations. For the first thing, it points 
out all the current release versions of applications and packages.
Compare them to the debian/ubuntu packages and before making 
accusations, check WHO is out of date.
Stop writing FUD, it is not of use for anybody.

http://www.gnustep.org/experience/apps.html
Is in-line with current releases (there is newer stuff in SVN, but why 
announce it before it exists?)

Specifically, if you check:
http://www.gnustep.org/experience/GWorkspace.html

you will see that it is updated and reports the latest version of 
GWorkspace, 0.9.2 . What version are you running? Last time I checked 
debian had 0.8.8 which was like the first version released after months 
le last maintainer left. It has barely usable drag-n-drop and I know of 
a bug which can crash it with just a single operation, yet no update by 
Debian, why? possibly because it would need updated core packages!

The debian provided stuff is just crap. Point. I don't know and 
understand why, but it is barely usable. It is old, outdated, insecure.  
I have a system where I test it, but it is a joke. Ubuntu just "steals" 
from debian without improving and debian doesn't move those packages, I 
don't know.
I filed several bug reports about this and lost hope/interest.

Check stuff against this:
http://wwwmain.gnustep.org/resources/downloads.php?site=ftp%3A%2F%2Fftp.gnustep.org%2Fpub%2Fgnustep%2F

> Everyone I have talked to in the FOSS world regards GNUstep as being
> long, long dead. :(
>
>
> > Anyway, I hope that by testing against debian and supporting debian, ubuntu
> > shall work too.
> I'm very impressed by your account of all your testing work! It sounds
> amazing. This software - and your packages - need *much* more
> promotion, I think.
Thanks. However, you know, working your arse off by maintaining and 
fixing packages from bitrotting... and then seeing that those packages 
don't get updated.. is very very frustrating.

People come and say GNUstep is dead... when the only dead thing are the 
packages!
> Some of which I can do, but I need to get it working, so I have
> something to show people... :-)
Showing off something working is a good advertisement.

Riccardo