Re: *Any* way to getting GNUstep on a G4 ???

[Quentin Mathé]

Le 28 oct. 04, à 21:05, Uli Kusterer a écrit :

> In article <mailman.5831.1098987512.2017.discuss-gnustep@gnu.org>,
>  Alex Perez <aperez@student.santarosa.edu> wrote:
>
> > If you explicitly state the guide you were following online, I will
> > replace it with the newer one. This is another sore-spot WRT GNUstep
> > documentation. We will release an updated GNUstep source tarball with
> > updated readmes, but those won't ever get posted to the GNUstep.org
> > documentation area until someone makes this kind of accidental,
> > stumbling observation that it's out of date. I'm sorry to foist that
> > responsibility upon you.
>
> My basic problem is probably not that the docs don't exist, but that
> they're hard to find. There is an "Introduction" section, a "Download"
> section, a "Getting Started" section and a "How can I get GNUstep"
> section in the FAQ, on gnustep.org.

True.

> It's not entirely obvious where I would look for the info.
> "Introduction" apparently is a "Why should I use GNUstep?" section.
>
> "Download" contains the download links, but doesn't really contain
> general installation instructions. It has a "MacOS X" section, but that
> contains the verbose equivalent of "coming soon". Of course, once I've
> downloaded GNUstep, I have the README in there, but a link to the 
> readme
> from there sounds really handy for finding out what you're getting
> yourself into *before* you've cost GNUstep.org bandwidth.
>
> "Getting Started" contains docs on how to use GNUstep once it's
> installed.
>
> The "How-to" is actually hidden where I wouldn't have looked for it: in
> the "Developers" section under "Documentation". It may be a good idea 
> to
> link to the How-To at least from the "Download" and "Getting Started"
> pages, with a simple sentence like "if you're looking for information 
> on
> how to install GNUstep, see the HOW-TO."
>
> I don't even remember whether someone here gave me the link to the 
> Build
> Guide at http://gnustep.made-it.com/BuildGuide/index.html or whether I
> followed a link somewhere. Anyway, I can't find it on GNUstep.org right
> now. Same with the link to the Readme. Where is there actually a link 
> to
> that on GNUstep.org? I'd probably put links to those on an "Installing
> GNUstep" page
>
> Another suggestion I have is that "Platforms" is a place I never really
> would have looked for installation instructions in. It sounds to me 
> like
> a list of supported platforms only. I personally would have looked for
> this info under one of the sections mentioned above.

Well, I'm glad you bring this issue back on the table, because I have 
said in the past that in my opinion it was very difficult to find the 
installation doc without knowing where it is… iirc Adam didn't really 
agree with me on this topic (no offence intended Adam :-) and nobody 
was really motivated to work on this stuff so the things are really 
slowly evolving (but the Documentation page have been updated by Adrian 
I think and is now clearer in my opinion). Anyway, if I remember 
following our last discussion on this subject, a link to the 
Readme.Darwin on the Platforms web page was added by Adam I think.

To talk about this stuff more specifically, I think to have the 
Readme.Darwin called Readme.MacOSX would be a first step (even if it is 
a little step backward from the technical terminology point of view), 
because very few people are installing GNUstep on Darwin strictly 
speaking, most of people which can be interested by a such Readme want 
to use GNUstep on Mac OS X. The Darwin users which are probably 
technical experts can be redirected to the Readme.MacOSX by keeping the 
Readme.Darwin with one line saying you shoud look in the Mac OS X one.
Well we could probably do the reverse have the Readme.MacOSX which is 
redirecting you to the Readme.Darwin, but I think it is a bit less nice 
from a marketing point of view.
Otherwise the installation documentation of the -make package should 
may be move to the core directory in a folder called Installation or 
something like that. … otherwise be linked at this level.
Now to come to the core problem, I want to say I totally agree with 
Uli, we should have an Install entry on the GNUstep.org home page. In 
this Install specific page, we should have installation instructions 
which aren't system specific and on the side a list of the platforms 
specific Readme, to be more user friendly the Readme should be 
translated to html and coupled with the GNUstep.org css.
Finally we should probably rename the Readme files to something like 
InstallationNotes or similar.

> Has anyone ever tried giving GNUstep.org a more task-based hierarchy?
> I.e. along the lines of
>
>    Getting started
>       - Why use GNUstep (fka Introduction, Mission)
>       - Getting GNUstep (fka Downloads)
>       - Installing GNUstep (fka Platforms, Readme, Howto)
>       - Learning GNUstep (fka Getting Started)
>
>    Using GNUstep
>       - Applications
>       - User docs
>       - user FAQ
>
>    Developing for GNUstep
>       - Developer docs
>       - developer FAQ
>
> I know task-based isn't the be-all end-all, and I'm not really happy
> with the hierarchy above (e.g. there's a fuzzy line between learning 
> and
> using a system...)

You solution is probably not perfect but it is surely better than what 
we have currently, even if I'm adapted to the current organisation.

> Also, the "External" section is an odd choice, kind of "odds and ends".
> The Project page could probably go either in "Developing for GNUstep" 
> or
> in "Related Links". The latter would also be a good place for related
> Sites and Mirrors.

I have no real opinion on that.

> Maybe it would be useful to find out what information people look for
> when they come to GNUstep.org, and to make sure the hierarchy and
> categories reflect that.

I hope there is will be a discussion on this subject…

> Sorry that became a little long, I'm still waiting for GCC3.4.2 to
> finish compiling :-)

Good luck… Just to repeat one more time : it is very easy to have 
GNUstep on Mac OS X working. :-)

Quentin.

--
Quentin Mathé
qmathe@club-internet.fr